placement issues(room)

divisionbell77 · « **on:** 23 Mar 2010, 12:21 pm »

Since living in this house I have had nothing but issues with my front right speaker and placement. When I take measurements it looks like a quake went off near by. I am bound by this room layout for a bit longer, but would like some tips on how to smooth it out as best as possible(move out or in, etc.).

The right main speaker is stuck into a corner, much closer to the side wall that the left(due to a doorway to the front door). To make matters worse, I am stuck with this stupid looking wood object in the corner, and a book shelf a little forward of the speaker. I am not sure how far it is off the side wall, but I know the SongTower is about 17 inches from the rear wall.

Below is a link to my gallery. There is a new album called right main placement, or something similar to it. They are not well done pictures, because I snapped them this morning before the sun was even up with my blackberry.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery

charmerci · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 12:37 pm »

OK - but can you explain why the thing is in the corner???

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm »

Quote from: charmerci on 23 Mar 2010, 12:37 pm

OK - but can you explain why the thing is in the corner???

Because I have no control over it.

vintagebob · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:09 pm »

That looks tough.

You can try adjusting the toe-in of the RIGHT speaker to see if you can take the book rack out of play. Then you can move the LEFT speaker forward or backward, as well as adjusting the toe-in, to center the image. With that corner placement and hardwood floor you must have some bass issues (probably ringing based on your measurement comment) that will probably only be helped with some trapping. No chance of putting a GIK Tri-Trap in place of or behind the wood thingy?

Maybe you could put that speaker on some casters/sliders so that you could move it forward and in for listening and put it back when you are done?

kessljo · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: divisionbell77 on 23 Mar 2010, 12:57 pm

Because I have no control over it.

Is it a wife thing such as ..."you can buy those monstrous speakers but you may not touch the railing that I salvaged from my Grandmother's farm. Those were my best childhood memories and you will forever stain them my moving the railing."

Those are certainly no win arguments.

Or is it the case that it is something structural? Or the landlord will not let you move it and it is nailed/screwed toe the hard wood floor?

Jake

Nuance · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: vintagebob on 23 Mar 2010, 03:09 pm

That looks tough.

You can try adjusting the toe-in of the RIGHT speaker to see if you can take the book rack out of play. Then you can move the LEFT speaker forward or backward, as well as adjusting the toe-in, to center the image. With that corner placement and hardwood floor you must have some bass issues (probably ringing based on your measurement comment) that will probably only be helped with some trapping. No chance of putting a GIK Tri-Trap in place of or behind the wood thingy?

Maybe you could put that speaker on some casters/sliders so that you could move it forward and in for listening and put it back when you are done?

^ This.

divisionbell77,

First of all, your avatar is hilarious. Also, your veneer turned out very nice. Concerning the measurements you mentioned, can we see them? Better yet, can you send me the mdat files, assuming you were using REW? I am with Bob and think you probably have bass ringing, not to mention ringing at higher up frequencies. The hardwood floor is killing you, bud. We also need to know more about your room.

What are the dimensions?
How far apart are the speakers?
How far away do you sit?
At what dimension in the room do you sit (in other words, half way in the room, 2/3 the way from the back wall, etc)?

Would it be possible to snap a few more pics, with a couple being from at or behind the listening position? I think we could better assist if we could see the "big picture."

Hang in there buddy. You'll get this sorted out.

Nuance · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:45 pm »

Quote from: kessljo on 23 Mar 2010, 03:16 pm

Is it a wife thing such as ..."you can buy those monstrous speakers but you may not touch the railing that I salvaged from my Grandmother's farm. Those were my best childhood memories and you will forever stain them my moving the railing."

Hilarious!

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:48 pm »

Roommate's house, and to him decorating and being pretty are the most important things int he world.

Long story short: parents 30 year old business collapsed, and me being so nice went ahead and had their house transferred to my name, just in case anything bad would happen. Nothing bad happened(they never needed to file the big B), but the housing market crashed/credit crunch and now I have 1 mortgage in my name and no company will give me a second one in this credit crunch. I moved in with a buddy that is near my work as there was no way I was moving back home or getting an apartment.

Flash forward 3 years: this is all ending soon, as they will be taking the house back so that I can finally grab a super dirt cheap home in Cleveland(no joke, insane good deals up here right now, 40K can net you 1500+ sq ft in a nice neighborhood).

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 03:53 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 23 Mar 2010, 03:44 pm

^ This.

divisionbell77,

First of all, your avatar is hilarious. Also, your veneer turned out very nice. Concerning the measurements you mentioned, can we see them? Better yet, can you send me the mdat files, assuming you were using REW? I am with Bob and think you probably have bass ringing, not to mention ringing at higher up frequencies. The hardwood floor is killing you, bud. We also need to know more about your room.

What are the dimensions?
How far apart are the speakers?
How far away do you sit?
At what dimension in the room do you sit (in other words, half way in the room, 2/3 the way from the back wall, etc)?

Would it be possible to snap a few more pics, with a couple being from at or behind the listening position? I think we could better assist if we could see the "big picture."

Hang in there buddy. You'll get this sorted out.

I'll get more pics and measurements shortly. I am actually leaving in a few minutes, since I have Time Warner coming and was given the '1 to 5' time range to come and fix my internet, so was forced to take a half day PTO at work instead of work from home(with my packet loss, no way I can hold a VPN connection for more than 10 seconds).

For measurements, I am actually using ARC with the Anthem Statement Pre/Pro and even the Anthem is having issues as it is that bad in that freaking corner. I can snip out some pictures of it.

I also have this AVR600 I want to do a head to head with, but the Arcam can't hold a candle to the Anthem with this damn corner.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 04:55 pm »

right front measurement. Red is of course the measurement.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 05:17 pm »

added these three new pictures.

the front right is already toed in a wee bit. Going from the rear of the speaker to the wall behind it: the right side measures 17.5 inches from the wall, the left side 16.6 to 16.75 inches from the wall.

speaker distances to listening position: FL: 9'9", C: 8' 6", RF: 10' 5", SR: 7' 1" and SL: 9' 6"

Room size is 13' 4" x 18' 8" wide.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 05:30 pm »

rear wall nightmare:

My best friend that is always there for me, every St Patrick's Day(buy one each year):

charmerci · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 06:25 pm »

My suggestion is to move the right speaker to the left of the doorway - then center the TV between them and put the sub in the corner.

Or not.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: charmerci on 23 Mar 2010, 06:25 pm

My suggestion is to move the right speaker to the left of the doorway - then center the TV between them and put the sub in the corner.

Or not.

This is what i have to deal with, sadly. But only for another 3 or so months. I have somehow managed to live with it until the Salks came in, and it became my mission in life to defeat it.

Nuance · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 09:32 pm »

Hmm...you're right - that is a nasty graph. The corner and wood floor are not behaving nicely. I notice you have a carpet on the floor, which is good, but moving it up toward the speakers would help reduce the floor bounce further.

ARC is a cool piece of room correction software, and I think it does a decent job, but doesn't it take a minimum of five measurements from various locations? Is the graph you posted an averaged response from the LP, or a single measurement? If you have a preamp to power it, could you possible use the mic that came with ARC and use REW to take a single measurement of just the right speaker? ARC is great, but REW is better for acquiring RT60, waterfall, impulse and spectral decay measurements IMO.

So in three months you move, correct? It was nice of you to help out your buddy, so I hope these last few months fly by quickly. Until then, hang in there and tweak as necessary (as much as your pal will let you). Personally, I'd re-arrange the room and put the TV and speakers on the right wall, with the fireplace to my back.

Good luck.

P.S. Are you just letting ARC adjust for the difference in speaker distances, or are you manually level matching?

mjosef · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Mar 2010, 10:06 pm »

Your friend certainly have the knack for house-keeping. Like the saying goes, he can keep house.
Try this: pull that right speaker out towards that 'antique shelving unit', so its immediately in front of that...ummm..."artifact' in the corner, and right up against the end of the shelving with a 10-15 degree extra toe-in angle. The boundaries of the two front speaker are so dis-similar that the difference in speaker2ear distance may be moot.
If that does not improve audio matters, easy enough to just move it back. Then just live with it until you get your own space.
Good luck.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 12:18 am »

That graph is 5 measurements...from the same spot. I do it just to see how it is from the main listening area. Perfect? No. But it's the option I have right now. The being the key word, as in singular.

New houe shopping will begin in about 3 months. i have the ability to wait, get a good realitor, and say 'this house, go find as a forclosure.' The key to that house will be the room for the home theater/audio being as ideal as possible, then room treatments(at the least corner traps).

After some tweaking(some input as the post above, and others from AVS Forum) I was able to straighten it out just enough where ARC has been able to work it's magic. That corner was so bad, ARC couldn't get anywhere near the calculated target. Key was another inch forward, and almost a half inch pull from the right wall then a small toe in at the front. now it is just playing more with it.

charmerci · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 06:23 am »

How about throwing a heavy throw rug or blanket over the thing while your housemate is out of the house?

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 10:34 am »

Quote from: charmerci on 24 Mar 2010, 06:23 am

How about throwing a heavy throw rug or blanket over the thing while your housemate is out of the house?

Most likely bring it down, knocking over the SongTower.

Seriously, no joke, the only option is to work around the room.

Nuance · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Mar 2010, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: divisionbell77 on 24 Mar 2010, 12:18 am

<snip>Key was another inch forward, and almost a half inch pull from the right wall then a small toe in at the front. now it is just playing more with it. <end snip>

Great - sounds like you made some progress. Its certainly not an ideal scenario, but I am glad things are looking up. Hang in there.