[Minn Mark]

I would appreciate some advice or feedback. I routinely watch internet sites like Elusive Disc, and Acoustic Sounds for new vinyl. Many of these 'audiophile' recordings are pressed at 45 rpm. I've purchased a couple of these albums. In general I find that at 45 rpm these discs dont sound as good as LPs played at 33 1/3 on my set-up: I am using a (old) SOTA Comet with a Sumiko Blackbird (tracking force ~ 1.8 g, anti-skate set at ~ 1.5) . I have a Geo-disc, as well as a DB systems alignment protractor.  The set-up works great for all 33 1/3 recordings. My issue is that with these 45 rpm discs I get a bit of sporadic, screechy haze over some of the more dynamic passages. One album I have where this interferes  :(with my enjoyment is Joe Pass/Ella Fitzgerald "Take Love Easy".    Am I doing something wrong ??  Is this a compliance issue? Anyone else with my experience, too ? What can I do to improve the tracking for these 45 rpm recordings??  Any advice appreciated. Thanks !

Mark

[Sonny]

Mark, I would think that "compliance" would not change from 33 to 45 rpm.  Have you checked the speed at 45 rpm??? Now Anti-skating may play a part, since the disc is spinning faster at 45rpm...right?

[Wayner]

Tuan posed a great question and I just checked my Technics SL-1200 with my Antiskating Calibration Tool (ACT) and speed has virtually no effect, switching from 33 1/3 to 45 RPM. The arm just stayed in one spot.

There is lots of analog information going past the stylus, and just off hand thinking, I suspect it may very well be cartridge compliance, or tonearm compliance or maybe even both.

I have many 12" 45s and they are very dynamic, robust and surprisingly quiet. Mark, I have no suggestions for you at this time, but I will put on the thinking cap. I do think that the problem you are seeing is also present at 33 1/3 RPM, just at a reduced effect.

One question that comes to mind is what arm are you using and does it have viscous damping?

Wayner

[Sonny]

Thanks Wayner...for following up.  I suspect that you're saying also that compliance should not vary with speed of the RPM, correct?

[Minn Mark]

Thanks for the responses. My SOTA is many years old, so I'm not sure what tonearm I am using. I have used a Shure V15 III, and a AVA Grado Longhorn on this set-up, but didnt have any 45 LPs during those days. I 'assumed' that so much audio press loved the Comet/Sumiko Blue pt special, that a swap up to the Blackbird would not be out of the question. I got the stylus from The Needle Doctor in MN and they knew my application.  I dont know much more than some introductory vocabulay about things like compliance, etc., but I think you understand the behavior I'm describing---not unbearable, just enough on occasional passages to make me think, "Jeez, I paid $49 to hear this...? 

Will appreciate any further traffic on this topic.  A new TT is always only a dream away, too.....love the vinyl.

Cheers,

Mark

[MikeC]

Hi Mark

45 RPM LP's are generally cut hotter as they are engineered to get the most out of the medium and normally have the programme spread over two disks, so there is less need to compromise on dynamics in order to fit a whole album on one disk. In your case, I guess the haze you are hearing is mistracking, as your cartridge can't handle the increased transients.

Try to increase the tracking force to 2.0 grams and see if this improves things, but the long term solution will be a rebuild or replacement. Unfortunately, apart from tip wear, the suspension will also deteriorate over time, irrespective of the hours logged.

Mike

[Wayner]

I agree that the resulting sound is mis-tracking, but I am not sure of the cause. Increasing VTF may help, but you are almost to the limits on the Grado. Why do you have your VTA set at 1.8 grams, but your anti-skating set to 1.3? Did you use a blank disc to check, or did you do this by ear? Most arm MFGRs indicate setting the anti-skate value to equal the VTF value, so it should be at 1.8, not 1.3. Also, older arms start to loose spring tension on the anti-skating and that may very well be a factor.

Wayner

[Minn Mark]

Wayner,
Sorry if I confused you. Currently I am using the Sumiko Blackbird, which is about 1.5 years old. The set-up is per their instructions, and my ears. At 1.8 gms the tonal balance seems right, and they suggest less for the anti-skate, so I'm at about 1.3 or so.  I have not adjuested the VTF in some time, and I know the suspension will 'sag', but on my tonearm its kind of a pain to mess with. Last time I looked (per Michael Fremers DVD) the VTF seemed OK, and the sound is right for me.

PS- was looking at soem gallery photos and saw your garage system (cool  )  Wanna help me look for a nice Marantz receiver?? Would kinda like to have one, so if you spot one worth looking at send me a note, huh?  Power not so much an issue as I dont know what spkrs I would pair it with---just sort of lusting after one to have...you know.....

Cheers,

Mark

[Minn Mark]

Sorry, confused you again....not VTF...I meant VTA !!

[Wayner]

OK no problem. I used to have more receivers then the local electronics store, but am down to 4. I sold my Marantz 1530 to Rockadanny, and my Marantz 2230 went to a local. I also had a Kenwood KR-7700? and a Marantz 2230B, they are gone too. So all I have left for vintage is the Marantz 2220B and a 2385. I also have the new Marantz receiver ,,,,4023? and the Outlaw RR2150.

The 2385 is an obscene beast with 185 watts RMS per channel! It's just too much. I'll keep an eye out for ya. I have another friend that is looking for one too.

Wayner

[Minn Mark]

Thanks Wayner.

I'm watching a few 2270's on eBay right now. Seems like that would be a good size (70w) and has nice features. It's about what I'd want to spend to....(<350)...thanks for watching. I will try a little more tracking force the next time I spin one of the 45s, and also revisit my VTA, just to be sure.

Cheers,

Mark

[rcag_ils]

Most arm MFGRs indicate setting the anti-skate value to equal the VTF

Not according to the old Sonographe manual, I think it said to adjust the anti-skate, lower the tonearm slowly to see which way the toneam is pulled to, and adjust the anti-skate accordingly until the arm doesn't jump to either side, and that's the method I use.

Also according to the chart in the Empire 598 III manual, anti-skate doesn't always equal to the VTF.