Cheap Full Range speakers?

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dasein

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Cheap Full Range speakers?
« on: 12 Feb 2010, 03:33 am »
Hey guys!

I've been enjoying my Usher S-520s hooked up to the Onkyo 8555 stereo amp. It's been treating me quite nicely but lately I've been obsessed with the idea of trying to build an open baffle single driver speaker.

I came across this page http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/open.htm and it seems like a simple enough design to try (I'm not the best with woodwork so I figure I'd start simple). The one thing holding me up now is finding a place to get full-range drivers.

Any suggestions on where I could find some for cheap? I don't mind getting some vintage speakers and grabbing the horns out of them. If people had any suggestions on where to go or what to be looking for that would be really helpful.

Thanks!

planet10

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Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #1 on: 12 Feb 2010, 07:42 am »
Cheap & OB, start here

http://www.wildburroaudio.com/

dave

Wind Chaser

Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #2 on: 12 Feb 2010, 08:25 am »
Everyone has their own idea of what is cheap.  What's your idea / budget? 

dasein

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Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #3 on: 12 Feb 2010, 01:23 pm »
I was thinking less than $100 a pair. Hopefully close to $50. Is that reasonable?

Is there an optimal speaker size? I noticed a lot of full range drivers are 8". Will there be better bass with a larger speaker?

Thanks!

pjanda1

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Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #4 on: 12 Feb 2010, 05:22 pm »
The Betsy is about as inexpensive as they come, primarily because I have no distributers and keep her pedestrian looking.  They are exactly $100 a pair, but I did recently have a sale/promotion that you might be interested in.  The Pioneer BOFU is less expensive, but you would probably need to add some series resistance to use it on an OB.  But then you end up with fairly low efficiency.  And by the time you add supertweeters (which they require) you are close to $100 anyway.  PE has a $9 "ceiling speaker" fullrange.  But it has a very, very high Qts.  You'd likely find the bass to be boomy and lacking in extension, but they could be a fun experiment. 

I have not built a JE Labs style baffle.  It looks a little small to me (compared to the effective dimensions of the U-baffle I use).  Keep in mind that the amplifiers JE and company use will all have a high output impedance, which increases the effective Qts of the speaker.  That means they don't need to have speakers with as high a Qts to get reasonable bass.  With your Onkyo, you are going to need a speaker Qts around .7 for it to not sound underdamped (bass light).  The U-baffle, BTW, is based on the Darkstar thread here at AC, which predates WBAL.  Do check it out for useful OB info.

8" is a pretty good size, BTW.  Drivers can only move so much air in an OB, and the 8" is just enough to get the job done for most people in moderate sized rooms (provided you are listening somewhat nearfield).  Also, speakers generally get more efficient as they get bigger, so smaller drivers may not be enough for smaller amplifiers.  8" speakers can also get enough high frequency extension to satisfy most folks, whereas most larger fullrangers require a supertweeter.  The budget larger fullranger is the Emminence 12LTA, but notice the HF on the response graph.  A 12" driver's whizzer starts to look like a woofer.  And, of course, bigger speakers cost more.  So, all-in-all, 8" is very popular due to the balance of bass and treble performance.

FWIW, OB's are easy to experiment with.  If you were to build the U-baffle I choose, you could build multiple baffles for the center.  Then, if you find an interesting vintage 12" (EV, for example) on Ebay or craigslist, you can swap in and compare.

Drop me a line if you are interested in the Betsy, but I'd be happy to discuss OBs here as well.

Paul
www.wildburroaudio.com

planet10

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Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #5 on: 12 Feb 2010, 05:37 pm »
What Paul said :)

dave

dwarfed centipede

Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #6 on: 12 Feb 2010, 09:23 pm »
I have had good luck with Fostex speakers.  I got them pretty cheap off craigslist for 2 pairs for $100.  The 6" sounds great in a ported box, havn't tried them in OB yet.

doorman

Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #7 on: 12 Feb 2010, 09:35 pm »
Which model?
Don

dwarfed centipede

Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #8 on: 15 Feb 2010, 07:14 pm »
The fostex 6" I was referring to is model FE166E. 

Vapor Audio

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Re: Cheap Full Range speakers?
« Reply #9 on: 16 Feb 2010, 07:40 pm »
Paul
www.wildburroaudio.com

Love your logo, that's classic stuff!

I've been playing with these:
Fountek FR88-EX http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8585
And these, Dayton RS-100 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-338

With plans to make a narrow crossover-less open baffle line array.  Both are amazing drivers that deliver 300hz to about 8000hz with absolute lack of colorations.  I've heard that range with more weight and impact, but can't think of anything that does it as clean and accurate.  The Fountek I think has a cleaner top end, the Dayton is best with a compensation network to clean up some of the peaky-ness.

You could wire a pair of either in parallel and get 87-88db sensitivity from 300hz up.  Obviously you'd need a woofer to cover the lower few octaves, but even an 8" driver on an open baffle ... unless it's a very wide baffle, isn't going to deliver any real output below 150hz. 

You could put something like this:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-907

With a pair of the Founteks wired in parallel and be close.  Just put something like a 4mh inductor on the woofer to roll it off starting around 300hz, and a big cap on the Founteks if you want some protection for them.  Open baffle the woofer will lose 6db based on whatever the baffle width is, so sensitivities would match up somewhat.  And all 6 drivers would be just a few bucks over $100.