[roymail]

Volume, gain & voltage?

It sounds kind of techy, but trust me when I say that I only know enough to be dangerous.  Heck, I can't even read a schematic.  What little I know about audio and electronics I've learned from many of you guys.

So in an effort to expand my education, I'd like to ask this question about source output (voltage) and volume or gain. If at any point I sound a bit ignorant of the subject, your impression is probably correct.

When I read about preamps providing gain, what does that mean in light of the volume or output that a typical 2 volt source (CDP) already provides?
 
In a different way, if you plug a CD player (2v source) directly into a power amplifier, it plays loudly depending on the efficiency of the speakers.  Let's use 90lb sensitivity for the speakers.  Using a preamp to control volume, at what point does the preamp's volume reach the same level as the 2v source signal?  And, how much additional gain can it provide?
 
Is it just a matter of driving the amp with additional voltage?  Then what is the typical voltage output of most preamps?  Since the 2v source is already pretty loud, what is the purpose?  Is it to allow for additional headroom?

I have a few other thoughts, but this will do for now.  Thanks for whatever help anyone can provide.  Now go easy on an old guy.

[Niteshade]

I am going to say that whether you want to use a preamplifier or attenuator is application specific. It all depends on how the amplifier's receiving end is constructed. I have made amps where passives sound better connected to them and others where a powered preamplifier worked the best. That goes for other brands as well. When constructing a system, it has to be thought of as a whole. I prefer to make amps so that either an attenuator OR powered preamplifier will provide good results and leave it to the customer.

With your own system, it's going to be a case of trial and error. I like a powered pre's ability to extract information out of the music. I think they can be good at enhancing articulation- not by adding anything, but by being sensitive to the source. On the other hand, a passive is a simple machine and amps with a high gain front end may benefit from them MORE than with an active preamp. I have had high gain amps sound very good with powered preamps too.

Simplest answer: Try them both. There is no right or wrong, better or worse.

[roymail]

Blair, thanks for the explanation.  I hope the preamp tour makes it to my house so I can compare your design to my stepped attenuator and my SS pre.  I'd love to hear it in my room.  And, I'll be happy to share my impressions on this thread.

Your thread discussing the importance of speakers prompted me to reconfigure my speaker placement with some very good results.  Since my system is in the family room, it limits any chance of room treatment.  I'm just taking baby steps in any way I can.  I do plan to try some different speakers in the near future and perhaps another amp.

[roymail]

There doesn't seem to be much interest in this thread, so let me see if I can stir the pot. (no pun intended)

If a passive attenuator of whatever type, shunt to ground, stepped, LDR, etc. works well in a given audio system providing plenty of volume without rolling off the highs or lows, then in what way would an active preamp be of benefit in that same setup?

I hope some others will join in the discussion.

[Mr Content]

There doesn't seem to be much interest in this thread, so let me see if I can stir the pot. (no pun intended)

If a passive attenuator of whatever type, shunt to ground, stepped, LDR, etc. works well in a given audio system providing plenty of volume without rolling off the highs or lows, then in what way would an active preamp be of benefit in that same setup?

I hope some others will join in the discussion.

Hi Roy, thinking about your question......I think the answer is............sort of like how long is a piece of string.
Or in other words, an active pre may sound better, or it may not. Really depends how good the passive pre you are talking about is, I have heard some pretty good ones.........and I have heard some that I didn't like, same goes with active pre's, heard some really good ones, and heard some not so good.

One thing I would like to mention, and it doesn't get much air time, is synergy between components. This can have a big bearing on the overall sound, and a pre may be good with some amps but not with others.

Just a few thoughts to add here 

Nig

[roymail]

Hey Nigel,

Thanks for your thoughts on this subject, and good to hear from you again.  I know you're right.  I really thought the tube guys would mention that a tube pre could tame harsh upper hz with tube rolling or something like that.

I realize that a passive attenuator is not for everyone, but all I know is that it works very well in my setup.  It's just honest and neutral without adding or taking away anything.  I haven't experienced any of the limited dynamics that some talk about.  That said, I may love a tube preamp, or not.  Don't know because I've never tried one.  But, I hope to hear one in my little setup some day.

Cheers, 
Roy

[Mr Content]

Roy, a good tube pre would for sure take your system to the next level. Add tubes give a level of "organics" to the presentation, a realness that you will not experience with them,........IMHO anyway.
If you get a chance, even borrow one, I am sure you will like it.

Nig