[dflee]

The more I try to learn about prat (what it is and what I should be hearing) the more confused it seams. Is it possible to to develop an ear or is it just something your born with? I have listened to various equipment that I did not care for. So am I subconsciously listening for prat or is there just no hope for me?
As always, any and all input is appreciated.

Don

[Wind Chaser]

Could Prat just be another bit of nonsensical audio lingo?  Are these three words supposed to describe three separate elements or one and the same thing?  I don't know. 

[richidoo]

Pace Rhythm and Tempo

It is not a sound, but a feeling. You will notice your body responding to the music by moving, tapping, conducting, dancing, smiling, laughing unconsciously and uncontrolled when there is good prat. I believe it is a physiological symptom of the pleasure and satisfaction from taking in music as nutrition.

Live unamplified music has perfect prat, always. No matter how much they screw up the time or play out of tune, PRAT is pure in real life.  It feels good to be there with them, and the next morning you will feel the added life in you. A good speaker can reveal the amount of PRAT, but does not cause it to be better or worse. PRAT that feels less than a live performance is caused by the electronics, mostly the power amplifier. 

Changing from an amp with lousy prat to one with good prat makes the perception of tempo of the song slow noticably. You can hear details and musical information so much easier, the brain is so relaxed it is so effortless it just seems like the song is moving slower. Like time is passing slower. Maybe as the nutrition of the music affects the brain in a positive way the perception of time is slowed.

It has little to do with measurable specs of the equipment, like attack, damping factor, SS or tubes, bass extension, etc.  The prat-iest amps I have heard are PURE 100% class A - tube or SS. It doesn't matter the kind of music, although music with a beat and strong tempo willbe more noticable. But unless you swap amplifiers in the middle of every song to hear the speed difference, the best way to know prat is how you feel inside. The body will tell you with warm joy at the solar plexus, and involuntary movements corresponding to syncopation and emotional nuance of the performer. It need not be disco with a steady beat to have prat. A solo violinist bending the time in expressive liberty can make your whole body move around as she does in performance. That's prat.

For something so hard to describe in words, or measure, it has a big affect on the satisfaction of using the audio system. I think it's the elusive thing that audiophiles are looking for. It is the emotional and physical connection to the music, as opposed to just mental comprehension and analysis.

[Regalma]

To me PRAT is misleading, pacing, rythm and timing are not things controlled by the playback system, unless it is really bad. I wouldn't worry about the term.

But what Richidoo describes is real. To me it is the what the quest for perfect playback is all about. Resolution, spot on location of instruments etc, etc, are means to an end only, And you can have them without having good sound. One of the first high resolution systems I ever heard, one with great soundstage and everything just right, ended up leaving me cold. It had no life in it. It was sterile.

Listen to live music then listen to recordings. Does it engage it you. Does it make you want to move. Does it put a smile on your face.

[dflee]

Thanks for the reply's and your honesty. I really thought with all the comments throughout AC throwing this term around I would have got more varying input.
Maybe it is because memory can change over time, but based on what has been stated I had some of my most memorable listening in my cousin's 69 Chevell SS hearing the likes of Santana, Cream, Traffic and like for the first time on his 8 track. Could hardly stand the 8 track but looked past it to get to the music which has had such a great influence in my life.
I am so thankful to listen to so many genre and enjoy almost all. Listening through my stereo and hearing this music is kinda like getting from point A to point B. That old 69 Chevell could get me there just like my Forester can today, but both in totally different ways.

As always
Don

[jrtrent]

Below is a link to an article that's been suggested for several years as a good introduction to the topic.  As an example, turntables from Roksan, Linn, and Rega are generally considered to preserve the temporal aspects of music quite well while models from VPI, Sota, Teres, Basis, Clearaudio are less accomplished in this area.

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/23/

A quick definition that I think conveys the concepts well comes from another forum by a poster called fretless:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=515835
Most of us tend to agree that how well a particular piece of audio gear reproduces a musical note's attack, sustain, and decay is meaningful.

Taking it a step further, pace, rhythm, and timing are the perceived effects resulting from the temporal relationships between groupings of notes and their attack, sustain, and decay components; a single note has attack, sustain, decay, but no PRaT. It's only when you group multiple notes together in time that PRaT becomes a factor.

I define Timing as how well the notes seem to "line-up" without stumbling or confusion. When the rhythm gets syncopated, demanding, or complex, a well-timed system never sounds tentative or faltering. I think timing and pitch stability are reciprocal.

Rhythm is the quality that gives the music buoyancy and bounce. When an audio system accurately retrieves the music's rhythm, you get a physical sensation of motion, as opposed to merely observing a static sonic event.

Pacing is the impression that the music is being pushed forward, rather than being dragged along. It's a feeling of powerful drive, eagerness, and excitement, as if the notes are "leaning into" the beat.

Only music "has" PRaT. Audio gear can only subtract from it to a greater or lesser degree.

[Wayner]

They say that you taste food with your eyes as well as your tongue. I think the Prat thing is the same. It's hard for the brain to get into the music playback without seeing the band or performer. I agree that it is a feeling. There is just something about a bunch of guys playing the blues in a blues bar filled with smoke and people drinking. The lights are low and all of your sense are being tripped. Hard to capture that at home in a "canned" recording.

Wayner

[werd]

Pace, rythym and timing/tempo. Look at what it says. We are talking time signatures and its influence on music. Best described using basic 4/4 timing, musical ques and rythym instuments derive from it. I find percussion in particular snares and bass drums the most noticeable benefactor of soundstage with good prat. They keep the musical bars intact and create the ground work for everything else. Gear that's designed around large transfomers and great powersupplies tend to get this right.

Good examples of lousy prat can be found around car audio systems. I would say that about 95%car audio suffers from decent PRAT. The other 5% use large caps sitting right next to their partnered power amps. This improves prat in car audio immensely. Whats missing still is the air around instruments and decent untangled high frequencies that home audio can obtain.

[lagalag]

Hi dflee,

I hope you already found the meaning of PRAT by your own. If not, let me tell you my experience on it.


'what it is and what I should be hearing?' - Do not listen to the sound, listen to the music. I first noticed PRAT when I was making A-B comparison of my Home Theater receiver and a stereo amplifier. I was really curious what I would hear as difference between them according to what I read online. Many people say that HT amplifiers are 'lifeless'. I wanted to hear what they meant.


When I was doing comparison, I was actually listening for any improvements in sound aspects between my HT receiver and the stereo amplifier. But having a 'standard' sets of ears, I failed to notice significant changes in the sound that would win me over to stereo. I was disappointed to myself for not having a set of golden ears.


But I became lucky when I stopped analyzing the sound. I relaxed myself and decided to enjoy the CD albums I had through the stereo amp before I return it to the dealer who loaned it to me. While sitting relaxed, I noticed that some tracks are being played sort of 'faster' and more 'alive'. It became very easy for me to imagine that the musicians were smiling and sweating themselves out while recording the tracks. One stand-out track where I noticed PRAT the most was in the CD Selected Jazz 2007, the song 'Sway' by The Puppini Sisters. It was like they are singing faster without sounding like fast-forwarded voices. And I loved it! PRAT was prevalent on ALL my CDs. Even my wife who is not much into music, was singing along Karen Carpenter that day even though I've been playing Carpenters every day of the week, with her just reading books while sitting beside me.


In my humble opinion, not all people have the same level of perception of pace and rythm. I noticed it during my high school days when some of my dance lesson classmates cannot dance even the simple waltz. You cannot make them waltz while their eyes are closed. They have to look at the people around them to have a visual cue to 'go-along' with the music. Don't get me wrong, everybody can sense pace and rhythm, otherwise we will walk like drunk. I just believe many people can better sense rhythm up to the millisecond of note peaks. But just like dancing and everything else, practice makes perfect! I think watching many live gigs helped me develop a better sense of musical rhythm.

If you think you have a good sense of pace and rhythm, which Im sure you have, just relax while listening. As I have mentioned, listen to the music. Not to the sound. But if you cannot sense any difference, nobody's hopeless like you said. Watch more live performances of the music you like.

Regards