[Alwayswantmore]

Hi, I have 2,400 feet of unfinished basement. Construction is Superior Walls (precast concrete w/ layer of built-in insulation) and walkout at one end (frame construction).

Due to humidity problems, I may need to bite the bullet and install a heat pump. If I've gone that far, I'm wondering what it would take to convert a portion of the basement to a greatly reduced volume level for band practice (I'm a drummer).

Qs:

1.) If I used a front corner of the room, two walls would be concrete (with an insulation layer). A high percentage outside the wall would be underground. I assume these walls would be pretty much sound proof, even if only covered with drywall and whatever level of insulation is required for a finished basement. True?

2.) If above is true, then I would only need to deal with two walls and one ceiling to create a practice space. I’ve seen lots of links and sites that promote sound proofing. From this I gather that the room needs to be isolated from the floor above and any 2x4s (or 2x6s) that connect with the main floor.

Any tips on the what type of construction I would need for the remaining 2 walls, ceiling and approx. 2 doors?

My goal is to get a rough idea of for materials cost. And determine how much I might be able to do myself.

Thanks in advance for any input you might have. Kent

[Phil A]

look at www.acousticsfirst.com or similar sites

[Jeffrey Hedback]

Hi Kent,

I think there are a few questions to clarify before your questions can be answered.

Are you isolating from neighbors or the people in your house (or both)?

How much isolation do you need?  Not that you should be expected to answer in acoustical terms...but here's the thinking: If your band is playing at 100 dB and your isolation systems are built to STC 50, then six feet on the other side of the room...you will hear 50 dB.

Typicals:
- interior house walls STC 32 (ish)
- studio walls STC 60 (min)
- Your precast concrete is going to be STC 53 (approx)
- typical residential background 35-45dB
- typical speech 55-65dB


Synthesize all that together and you should target STC 50-55.  There are details that make or break such effort...but the following will get you there:

- double stud wall construction: 2x4 stud>2" air gap> 2x4 stud with double 5/8" drywall on the outside of the system.  No wall board in the airspace & insulate with standard house insulation.  There are details regarding wallboard layers, sealant, etc...
_ you are likely correct that you can leave the concrete walls "as-is"
- You MUST address the ceiling to same level as the partition walls or the effort is useless.  I would need to know how the ceiling is right now to suggest...


Check out www.soundisolationcompany.com

If you can frame and drywall...no reason at all why you can't do this...in fact many DIY'ers get better results than hiring out becase the details take TLC.

I hope this helps.

[Alwayswantmore]

This helps. Mainly I want to practice when my wife is home. So greatly reduced sound is the goal. We practice at moderate volumes, likely less than 100db.

Basement ceiling is open floor joists, with standard insullation between joists (fiberglass with paper back). Floor to rafters is probably 9 to 9.5 feet prior to adding a ceiling.

Currently bass carries upstairs with very little attenuation.

I'll look at the links. I can also post photos of the construction if that helps.

Thanks, Kent

[ctviggen]

For the ceiling, you can use RSIC clips with hat channel, double fire-rated drywall, and green glue (oh, and insulation).  For walls near the concrete, build a 2x4 wall that's decoupled (rubber mounted) from the ceiling and decoupled (spaced apart) from the concrete.  For new walls, the best idea is two 2x4 walls, each decoupled from the ceiling and decoupled from each other (small air gap), with insulation, and one-two layers of drywall on each side.  For a door, a solid core wood door with exterior seals or even better two solid core wood doors in a communicating arrangement with seals. 

This is a good forum for these discussions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19

[drphoto]

Another consideration would be eliminate the noise in the first place. Get an electronic drum set (the new ones play and sound like real drums) a small mixer and have everyone use in-ear monitors.

[ctviggen]

Another consideration would be eliminate the noise in the first place. Get an electronic drum set (the new ones play and sound like real drums) a small mixer and have everyone use in-ear monitors.

Great idea.  This will be much, much, much less cheaper than what I recommended.  Good sound isolation techniques are expensive. 

[Alwayswantmore]

Another consideration would be eliminate the noise in the first place. Get an electronic drum set (the new ones play and sound like real drums) a small mixer and have everyone use in-ear monitors.

Good electronic kits are expensive. And will not help with other musicians who are singing, playing bass, etc.

[drphoto]

Well your probably looking at $2500 (or less used) for the drums, and everyone else can hear if they have in-ear monitors (the bass player can run direct to the mixer or run a line out from his amp)

A lot cheaper than all that room treatment!

[drummermitchell]

I use a 8 channel board and a Roland TD-20(a bit more than a few thou)I don't jam with a band.
I use R+L line outs of my cdp into the board so I use up two channels.
Then I run two R+L line outs of the TD-20 to two other channel strips on the board.
Haven't played live for a few years.
Your guys could go direct to a board,and a tad of reverb for that bigger room effect,slap on some
phones and you can cook till the cows come home.

[Alwayswantmore]

Well your probably looking at $2500 (or less used) for the drums, and everyone else can hear if they have in-ear monitors (the bass player can run direct to the mixer or run a line out from his amp)

A lot cheaper than all that room treatment!

I really didn't have any idea as to cost for this type of room. I assumed if it was mostly 2x4s and sheet rock for a couple walls and ceiling it might not be too bad. But have to admit I'm not familiar with costs for building materials. I have almost $2,000 worth of acoustic treatments in my listening room, so I shouldn't be surprised an isolated room would run into some serious money.
Thanks for the tips and links.

[Alwayswantmore]

I use a 8 channel board and a Roland TD-20(a bit more than a few thou)I don't jam with a band.
I use R+L line outs of my cdp into the board so I use up two channels.
Then I run two R+L line outs of the TD-20 to two other channel strips on the board.
Haven't played live for a few years.
Your guys could go direct to a board,and a tad of reverb for that bigger room effect,slap on some
phones and you can cook till the cows come home.

Interesting concept. Everyone on phones. We have the board. Something to think about.

[TomW16]

Hey Alwayswantmore,

Isolating a room won't likely run you too much more if you do it yourself (a couple of grand for isolation clips, green glue, additional drywall, etc).  The real trick, however, is to be detailed and look for sound flanking paths.  That is, areas where the sound can go around areas that you have designed to block sound.  Some areas that can be overlooked are outlet boxes, light switches, can lights, windows, doors, HVAC system inlets and outlets, basically anything where you have a hole in the room. 

Isolation is similar to an all or nothing proposition.  If you go 90% of the way, the sound will go out the 10% that you didn't address.  One way to think about isolation is to think about making your room water tight.  Anything that would let water in or out is a possible path for sound to escape from the room.  Isolation also does not treat the acoustics in the room and, in fact, might make the bass nodes worse since they can't escape.

I'm getting close to finishing my dedicated sound room / home theater.  Once I'm finished I'll post some photos in hopes that it might help others who are considering it.  I am appreciative of those who have done this before me and from whom I have learned from.

Cheers,
Tom

[JackD201]

Build a double door with gaskets along with double walls to keep the wife happy then get these http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx to save yourselves.



Then again you could save a lot of dough and get her a pair instead 

[Alwayswantmore]

Build a double door with gaskets along with double walls to keep the wife happy then get these http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx to save yourselves.



Then again you could save a lot of dough and get her a pair instead 

I have those. I also have ER4Ps and a the new advanced butt kicker on my throne. So I can practice and the volume is less than in real life. Very nice.

[ctviggen]

When you consider the cost of making this room, also consider your cost.  You'll need to do research to determine how to do this and what to do.  Then you need to find a place to buy all the stuff, or multiple places to buy the stuff (more likely).  You need to spend many weekends running new electrical, building new walls, insulating them, etc.  Then you need to get everything inspected, probably twice (once with electrical/plumbing in; once after drywall).  If you're going to do drywall, you'll need a drywall lifter for the ceiling and help at times.  5/8 inch fire rated drywall is very heavy.  You really can't lift a sheet yourself. 

I'm in the middle of a "renovation" of a family room, and it's taken me months of weekends and I still have a few more months to do.  In the end, it'll take me well over a year. 

[Alwayswantmore]

When you consider the cost of making this room, also consider your cost.  You'll need to do research to determine how to do this and what to do.  Then you need to find a place to buy all the stuff, or multiple places to buy the stuff (more likely).  You need to spend many weekends running new electrical, building new walls, insulating them, etc.  Then you need to get everything inspected, probably twice (once with electrical/plumbing in; once after drywall).  If you're going to do drywall, you'll need a drywall lifter for the ceiling and help at times.  5/8 inch fire rated drywall is very heavy.  You really can't lift a sheet yourself. 

I'm in the middle of a "renovation" of a family room, and it's taken me months of weekends and I still have a few more months to do.  In the end, it'll take me well over a year.

Thanks for the input. We have access to a small practice room at a another band member’s house now. I just thought it would be nice because I have a bigger room.

Give the expense and hassle, I think I'll probably forgo the project for now. My wife lets me  practice some time most nights if I keep the volume down. So that and weekly rehearsals will probably need to do it for now.

Thanks for all the input.