VR-7's and a subwoofer

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fplanner2000

VR-7's and a subwoofer
« on: 4 Oct 2009, 02:33 am »
Unbeknownst to most of you, I have become increasingly disenchanted with my 7's due to a distinct lack of bottom end dynamics and range.  When I was at RMAF the past 2 days, I heard a number of speakers that seemed to best my 7's in dynamics and bass attack, which was very frustrating to me considering the level and quality of my supporting gear.  I decided to investigate further......

A brief chronology:
1 yr ago, Albert came over and tuned my Velo DD-15 sub to my VR-7s.  Great sound, as long as sub was played.  Without sub, not so good.
Apx 5 months ago, added a 2nd VAC 300w amp.  Even better sound, as long as sub was played.  Without sub, a bit better but lacking low end.  Frustration really began 5 months ago and intensified the past 2 days.

My "aha" moment came this afternoon - I checked the settings of the sub and discovered it was crossed over at 80hz.  What this means is that the 7's were only going to 80hz, regardless of whether the sub was turned on or not!!!  Since I now have plenty of power for the 7's, there is really no need for the sub, as I discovered by performing a number of tests (had to put the dogs outside for this).  I would obviously much rather have the 4 VR-7 drivers handling 20-80hz range than a sub, so am now really first breaking in the woofers.  I had thought that's what I had been doing when I added the 2nd amp, but see now that all I was really doing was driving the sub.

BOTTOM LINE - My 7's are now finally doing what they are supposed to do.  Full range dynamics, bass attack, etc. have all returned and are coming solely from the 7's, with no sub.  It was a very simple fix, once I really thought about it and did a little sleuthing.  I was going to sell my 7's, but now that I've fixed the "user error", will probably keep them.  I look forward to hearing how they sound "full range" with the VAC 300.1s over time.  Initial results are quite positive, however I DID run across some very interesting JBL's at the show....

McTwins

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #1 on: 4 Oct 2009, 08:19 am »
Hi
I have mentioned this in another thread here on VSA circle, maybe you have missed that. Don't understand why you guys are using subs when you have speakers going down to 20 Hz(VR7 to 15Hz). It's only complicates the tuning of the speakers and performance. It's allways depends how the room looks like acoustically (shape and size) and adding subs won't allways help the problem. I can understand if the speakers only go down to 80 Hz and then adding a sub to handle 20-80 Hz, but not simultaneously. Then there is another problem, the speakers go to 20Hz but the room dosen't support 20Hz, interesting isin't it.
Glad you fixed it.
Thanks     

fplanner2000

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #2 on: 4 Oct 2009, 12:59 pm »
I play movies with the same system and originally needed the sub for that since 1 amp wasn't enough power to drive the 7's to my satisfaction for home theater purposes.  Since I now have a second amp, the sub may be a bit of overkill for movies now.  I obviously didn't realize the speakers were only going to 80hz, I just knew something wasn't right.   

Thanks for your input and no, I didn't see your thread on this (but wish I had months ago!!)

arthurs

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #3 on: 4 Oct 2009, 01:25 pm »
Glad you got that sorted out Harve, great to hear!

es347

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Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #4 on: 4 Oct 2009, 01:56 pm »
I have a similar story.  This past summer, I was driving myself crazy trying to decide what subwoofers to pair up with my VR5 Anniversaries.  In the midst of all that, just like overnight actually, I turned on my system one morning and there it was....the 20-25hz McTwins is talking about.  All of a sudden the whole room was pressurized by those 4 nine inch woofers.  That revelation came at about the 400 hour break in milestone so when folks say that VSA speakers have a long break in period, listen to them!  Subwoofers?.......we don't need no stinking subwoofers!

bentknee

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #5 on: 4 Oct 2009, 03:27 pm »
  I very much agree with Gavin on the break in problem. :thumb: The VS speakers will sound good at 100 hours and that is the problem. We are not buying speakers to sound good! The should sound great! It is hard to be patient but if we give the speakers 400 to 500 hours they will really open up. I put the speakers on a receiver 24/7 for a couple of weeks so as not to use up the tubes on break in. I talked to Albert about the need for him to post on the reasons for this and also how to tune the bass by adjusting the Dacron after break in. He will post on this soon.

  Blessings, Bob
 

fplanner2000

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #6 on: 4 Oct 2009, 09:44 pm »
The ironic thing is that now, after 1 1/2 years of ownership, I am just now getting to break in the 7's woofers!! Amazing..... The best part is that its like getting new speakers and finally hearing what they are capable of, without a subwoofer getting in the way.  As I mentioned above, I had erroneously thought I had been breaking them in, but hadn't been due to the high crossover point that was set for the sub (80hz).  The sound is already better than with the sub..... pretty cool......

I saw Albert this afternoon at RMAF and he seems in good spirits, just a bit tired after 3 pretty long days. Apparently there are a few favorable reviews about to come out on the new speakers and he's trying to gear up for the increased anticipated demand.

es347

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Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #7 on: 4 Oct 2009, 09:54 pm »
...and he's trying to gear up for the increased anticipated demand.  Throw me in that brier patch any day eh? :wink:

McTwins

Re: VR-7's and a subwoofer
« Reply #8 on: 4 Oct 2009, 10:13 pm »
Hi
fplanner..... I asume that you are running in monobloc now, right.
Just give the speakers some time to breath and you will enjoy watching movies without the subs. :thumb:
Thanks