[2bigears]

  ok,in the real world,what is the limit you should budget for a transport before you start paying for gold trim.i am using a Oppo right now and wondering if i am missing some sonics.any suggestions on models would be great also.thks   Pat

[ted_b]

Pat,
We'll need some more details. 

What DAC or processor is the transport connected to (assume it has a digital back-end, or you wouldn't be using the term "transport")?
Why do you think the transport is your sonic weak link (as opposed to the DAC, etc.)?
What is the rest of the signal path?
What is the budget?
What are your listening preferences, sonically (i.e soundstage, warmth, neutrality, big bass, etc.)
What is it about the Oppo that has you looking; what does it do wrong?

[*Scotty*]

At this point I would say that it is very difficult to justify spending any money at all on a transport. If you already own a computer you can achieve performance from it that can rival the best transports that money can buy for a fraction of the price. As an added bonus you can have DSP tone controls,that if necessary, have a very low impact on the essence of the music.
Scotty

[2bigears]

  hi Ted,right now i have a PS-Audio mod 4 dac.why i think i may be missing is simply stated,some people but big stock in the spinner.i have a VAC pre with a MF 750KW amp.just playing with a new set of Maggie 3.6's.budget is within reason.i like 60-70's rock.starting to lean to easy on the ears stuff.thks   

[ted_b]

soundslike your stuffs fine.thanks for the details.

[2bigears]

   sooooo a name brand spinner is money not so well wasted.gotta be somethin' to it ????

[jimdgoulding]

Legit curiosity, IMO.  I hear what I believe are digital artifacts too much of the time.  Hear it with a computer front end, too.  A friend said a person needs better software is what.  Gotta admit, there is evidence out there to that. 

[RichardS]

My Take:
First, are you open to buying used? There are some very good deals on good used transports these days. You can pick one up in the $500-$700 range, which seems reasonable for your system. Downside is that as they have moving parts, they are prone to breakdown and it may be hard to find parts in the older ones. I've owned a dozen transports that I bought used, and only one broke down (a Micromega, after 10 years). Fewer companies are making stand-alone transports these days.

Second, as was mentioned, there are other options, such as computer, but to get the noise impact reduced, it's not always a cheap way to go. Lots of folks here use the squeezebox/ transporter or sonos, etc., with and without mods. My take is that this is a reasonable option, IF you want to use a computer drive and are willing to pay to get it right with mods.

I use an Olive IMS, which sort of splits the difference -- a computer with transport functionality and visuals. It's even better if you can find one with mods (Red Wine used to do them). Holds its own with my North Star transport (which, BTW, I'd also recommend as a good option, one of the few that upsamples the output).  I also use a DIY CD-Pro 2m that a lot of ACers used -- it also uses the Philips top pro-2m transport which is very very good (and available).

Third, you might consider the option of putting a jitter box between your present transport and DAC, like a Genesis Lens or Assemblage, or wait for the new PS Audio (though I expect it will be pricey). I've used a number of these with good results, though I presently don't use one with my Olive or North Star.

Fourth, don't forget a good digital cable. IMS, they do sound different. My favorite is the Harmonic Technology Cyberlight/ Photon, which reveals a great sense of ease and openness, but they're pricey. I've also had good results with Ridge St. Poiema, Tara One and Stealth digital cables. Good budget options are Grover and Analysis + Oval.

Fifth, every system sounds different and reacts differently to equipment changes, DACs especially. So ultimately, you have to experiment till you find what you want. What is worth it to me (for example the HT cables) others may not find worth the money. That said, I've found my present transports to make significant improvements to the ones I'd previously used.
Good luck.

[*Scotty*]

I should mention that I am using an ASUSMOBILE Z84jp laptop computer which is silent from 2ft. away thus avoiding any noise issues. I have a 500G Seagate Freeagent Go USB hard drive for storage. A PC laptop suitable for audio can be had for well under $500.
Scotty

[richidoo]

I owned a PS Audio DL3 Cullen mod4 for a short time. It reclocks samples so transport has minimal effect. I used stock Sonos (lots of jitter,) Squeezebox3, Samsung HD-841 and Northstar transport while I had it. They all sounded very similar to me.

[Housteau]

When in doubt just listen for yourself.  I suggest borrowing a better transport from a friend, or dealer and spend a little time with it to see if it will make a difference with your DAC.  You can always buy used and if you do not like it, just re-sell and be out only the time and a shipping charge, if that.

I have found that they do make a difference, as does the cable.

[Quiet Earth]

i am using a Oppo right now and wondering if i am missing some sonics

Not really sure what an "Oppo" is, but I'm guessing that it's a DVD player or maybe even a universal type player for the big box store to sell kinda thingamabob? (Sorry for the gross technical error  )

If that's the case then my vote is a firm Yes Pat, you are missing stuff. Lots of stuff. A well made transport will reveal all kinds of musical goodies that you ain't hearing right now if you ain't got a well made transport. (More gross errors..... this time it be grammar. ) Of course your DAC needs to be up to the task too. If you feel like your DAC could be performing better than it is, then maybe you are on the right path.

When I was using my HHB Burn-it as a transport, things were mostly fine but I knew that my DAC could perform better. I "knew" this because I actually heard my DAC play much better in the store with a nice dedicated transport. So, when I finally spent (way too much) money for a nice dedicated transport (sorry 'bout that dear) I couldn't believe how much information I was missing. Mostly the low level resolution stuff was suddenly apparent, and the pace and timing cues were greatly improved. But also, it just sounded less electronic and more like music with a good transport.

So what's a good transport and how much should you spend? Well, no one can tell you how much to spend. You'll have to figure that out yourself. Once you come up with a budget then you can narrow things down. (Or you could go out and hear something that you just have to have and take your time and save up for it. That's what I usually do.  )

[Bob Wilcox]

I agree with Scotty. You may find a given transport or a player with digital output that will yield better sound than using the Oppo as a transport, but you will need to spend a bit to find a transport that will sound as good as a stock Transporter-based system with the Transporter driving your DAC - that assumes that the Transporter's DAC doesn't sound better than yours. That sets a price benchmark of around $1,500 - $2,000.

The average quality of mechanical transports has declined over the years. There seem to be few of high quality that are SACD/DVD-A compatible. It is one thing for a transport to reproduce the highs and the lows. It is in the time domain that you can hear the difference. Solo piano music that uses the sustain pedals is good for comparing transports. An excellent transport will sound 'right' - others less so.

[Quiet Earth]

I like the latest Phillips CDM Pro2 transport mechanism. I think a finished transport that has a CDM Pro inside would be a good starting point for the shopping list.

[2bigears]

  thks guys,does anyone know a brand name with this spinner inside.be nice to find a used one.  

I owned a PS Audio DL3 Cullen mod4 for a short time. It reclocks samples so transport has minimal effect. --------is this true ????  thks

[Les Lammers]

I like the latest Phillips CDM Pro2 transport mechanism. I think a finished transport that has a CDM Pro inside would be a good starting point for the shopping list.

I have had one of these for a while and it is excellent. I ordered it direct. It is available as a transport only for $200 less. 


http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/m3-1.htm

The DAC is a MHDT Havana. Nice combo. I did change caps in the DAC.

[Quiet Earth]

2bigears,

1. Many of today's top loading players/transports use the Phillips CDM Pro2 drive, so that can be a launching off point to start comparing performance vs. prices. You can use a regular CD player that has this drive. Just use the digital out into your DAC like you're doing now. For example, I think the Musical Fidelity top loading player is starting to be discounted. It uses the CDM pro2 mechanism. Do your own homework though, I don't really know anything about it first hand. (i.e. not a recommendation, just an example.) Then there's the one that Les bought. He seems to like it a lot. (How's that DAC coming along Les?)

2. If you buy a used player or transport, try not to get one that is more than two years old. This shouldn't be a problem because the latest pro2 drives have only been out for a few years. (Do you guys remember when it seemed like nobody was ever going to make a decent CD drive again, and the manufacturers were scrambling for options? Gee,,,, that wasn't too long ago, was it?)

3. Still not knowing what your "Oppo" is, there may be other less expensive options that provide a big improvement and answer your original question on the "limits of a transport". In other words, if the oppo is really bad then an upgrade could be easily attainable. (not slamming the oppo, I don't know a thing about it.)

4. Still again,,,,, not knowing your budget, if it is several grand, then I will make a specific recommendation to you based on what I own.

5. Computer fed DACs  :

You may find a given transport or a player with digital output that will yield better sound than using the Oppo as a transport, but you will need to spend a bit to find a transport that will sound as good as a stock Transporter-based system with the Transporter driving your DAC  ...........

I have to agree with this statement even though I don't own a Transporter. I have the Logitech Duet over here feeding my DAC's second input.  It's very good too, considering what it is and how much "transporting" the signal has to go through to finally get to the DAC. It sounds almost as good, yet clearly inferior to my CD transport. I like to use both of them though, and I don't worry too much about why one sounds better than the other. ( I like to spin records and listen to internet radio too! I'm OK with differences.)

A top notch transport is gonna cost some money. Period. The price of the latest CDM Pro2LF alone is over 400 U.S. dollars. That's just for the mechanism. There are other methods out there too, like CEC's belt drive and the TEAC thingamabob. CD playback is not dead yet, and I have a feeling that we will see more improvements in the future.

[mike1964]

I have had one of these for a while and it is excellent. I ordered it direct. It is available as a transport only for $200 less. 
http://www.icl.co.jp/audio/english/m3-1.htm

The Softone Transport looks really nice.  Wish I could find one pre-owned, even $1200 is a bit rich for a transport for my budget these days.  Saw a nice used CEC for about $750, which would be another option (wonder how long the belt lasts..).  The Softone looked like a better piece though.

[Les Lammers]

Hi Quiet Earth,

The Havana is quite nice. I used Obbligato premium caps 1.5uf from DIY Hi Fi Supply bypassed with .1 uf Jensen copper foils. As we all know...the *best* cap is subjective. I like this arrangement better than the OIMP V caps.

I have had the Softone for 2 years and not a glitch yet.

[Quiet Earth]

Wow! Sounds like a great combo Les. 
Good to hear from you.