HT pass through

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floresjc

HT pass through
« on: 24 Apr 2009, 10:15 am »
Ok, so after seeing the results of my last thread, and the expected hearty endorsement of AVA gear, I move on. Can't go wrong with a solidly built, musical piece of hardware at a great price. Since my system is going to do double duty, I wanted to ask people how they are doing this HT pass through thing with the preamp. Do AVA preamps have all the necessary options to do this? I've never seen a setup like this, so I'm foggy on how everything hooks together. I'm going to be using my Oppo Blu Ray (whenever it comes out) as my cd player, so it would have to connect to both the HT processor and the preamp? Since what I want from Frank is well under my power budget, it leaves me some room to knock out the preamp (preferably his if it would work). I shot him an email as well, hopefully I can get this thing nailed down.

Nuance

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #1 on: 24 Apr 2009, 03:21 pm »
You would not need to double connect the BR player, no.  HT bypass is just another set of analog cables that runs from the preamp to the receiver.  It allows the signal to be passed through when the preamp is off or not in use, thus still using the outboard amplifier(s) to power the main speakers. 

I do not know if Frank makes a preamp with HT bypass, so you'd have to ask him.  If he does, you're good to go.  Otherwise there are a bunch of preamps that impliment this feature.  What is your price range?  I assume you want just a 2-channel preamp with HT bypass?

The way I'm going to set my system up is:

CD player and Sqeezebox connected to the preamp via analog, BR player connected to the receiver via HDMI.  Preamp connected to the receiver going from the bypass analogs on the preamp to the receiver preouts. 

Hope that helps. 

floresjc

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #2 on: 24 Apr 2009, 04:25 pm »
Quite honestly, I don't want to spend a ton of money on a preamp, because I'm at the end of my budget. I thought I saw that Parasound makes a $700 model thats pretty sweet, but I can't remember if they are the particular maker of the steller value product I read about. The AVA SL preamp is probably not out of reach and if I saved up a little more I could get his EC one at 1099.

So if I understand this, you hook up the cd player to the preamp, which then passes through to the HT processor, which finally goes to the amps. If the preamp is used, the feed will go to the amps. If not, it will pass through to the HT processor, and the surround format will be decoded and output to the amps.

R Swerdlow

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 330
Re: HT pass through
« Reply #3 on: 24 Apr 2009, 04:42 pm »
As you may remember, I use a HT receiver and an external 2-channel amp to drive my STs.  What little I know about this comes from Nuance.

Look at the Parasound 2100 preamp http://www.parasound.com/nc/2100.php.

Look at the photos of the back and download the owner's manual.  I assume that any other preamps with HT pass through do it similarly.

Nuance

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #4 on: 24 Apr 2009, 07:55 pm »
Quite honestly, I don't want to spend a ton of money on a preamp, because I'm at the end of my budget. I thought I saw that Parasound makes a $700 model thats pretty sweet, but I can't remember if they are the particular maker of the steller value product I read about. The AVA SL preamp is probably not out of reach and if I saved up a little more I could get his EC one at 1099.

So if I understand this, you hook up the cd player to the preamp, which then passes through to the HT processor, which finally goes to the amps. If the preamp is used, the feed will go to the amps. If not, it will pass through to the HT processor, and the surround format will be decoded and output to the amps.
Like Swerd said, the preamp is the Parasound 2100, and it's actually the preamp I will be taking delivery on shortly.  I listened to a half dozen or so before I decided, and I feel it's a very good value for the money.  It also has two analog subwoofer outputs!  A 2.1 channel preamp!  :)  As you can tell, that excites me, haha.  It's one of the main reasons I bought it.

If you want to get a Parasound 2100, don't bother paying $700.  Pay $400 instead from Audio Advisor.  Occasionally AA will open some of their equipment for picture taking purposes.  Due to this, they reduce the price, and they happen to have a Parasound 2100 brand new, opened box for $400. 
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=0PAC2100

As for the proper connection hookup, yes, you've got it correct.  The preamp will only be used for 2-channel (or 2.x) music.  When not in use, simply shut it off, and it will pass the signal to the receiver, then to the amps and finally to the speakers so that the amps are still powering the speakers.  Hope that makes sense. 




floresjc

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #5 on: 24 Apr 2009, 08:37 pm »
R Swerdlow and Nuance -

Thanks for the links. That was exactly the preamp I was thinking about, I just couldn't remember. I did look at that open box special, only $399, I think its probly in mint condition? If so, it seems like a steal.

Nuance, since you seem to be very high on Parasound gear, do you care to share with me why you chose the 2100 over the other preamps you found. To me, it seems very feature rich at good price. On the Secrets review site, it was compared to the Emotiva and came out quite well. I'm going to call AVA this afternoon about his preamp, but I really have no basis for comparing the two. I suppose if his doesn't do pass through, thats a deal breaker since its a pretty needed function in my case. Would you think that the PS 2100 would be the best I could get for the money after that?


topher2411

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 15
Re: HT pass through
« Reply #6 on: 24 Apr 2009, 08:45 pm »
If it's any help, I emailed with Frank recently about HT bypass and he made it clear that his preamps and integrated could do HT bypass using the tape input and output.

sanlanman

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #7 on: 24 Apr 2009, 09:21 pm »
If it's any help, I emailed with Frank recently about HT bypass and he made it clear that his preamps and integrated could do HT bypass using the tape input and output.


I guess maybe I am confused about this.
First of all, I was under the understanding that the Left & Right main channel outputs of your home theater reciever or processor should pass though the preamp unaltered on the way to the Left & Right main channels of your amplifier, in an HT bypass set up? The preamp signal is not back fed from the preamp to the HT receiver or processor and then to the amp. The classic reasoning is that the stereo preamp will have the better fidelity for classic 2 channel operation than the HT receiver or Processor, or you need more analog inputs that the HT receiver or Processor has.

As far as using the record input & output for HT pass through, that may work for psuedo HT pass through, assuming the tape in jack receives from from the HT receiver or processor and the tape output feeds the main left & right amp channels, but under this scheme you will also have to run a second set of cables to your same left right amp channels for the variable volume output of sources connected to your preamp.

My thinking was that a true HT bypass input simply routed the signal from the HT receiver or processor directly to the preamp outputs when selected and by cable on the the main left & right channels of your amp, without any alteration or preamp volume control affect. (In other words preamp volume control is bypassed). But signals from all input sources connected to the preamp, (HT reciever or processor, turntable, CD player, DAC, transporter, etc), left the preamp by the same output jacks going to the amp.

If I am confused about this, somebody enlighten me.

BradJudy

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #8 on: 24 Apr 2009, 09:22 pm »
If it's any help, I emailed with Frank recently about HT bypass and he made it clear that his preamps and integrated could do HT bypass using the tape input and output.

Isn't the tape output always fixed level?  If so, this doesn't provide a HT bypass function.  A HT by-pass provides a clean pass-through for a HT processor to the amps, which works for tape in/out, but only if the amps are connected to the tape out.  One would not normally connect amps to a tape out because that would provide no volume control for any pre-amp inputs (i.e. when in two-channel mode, you'd be blasting the tunes at max volume).

BradJudy

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #9 on: 24 Apr 2009, 09:28 pm »
Logically, a HT-bypass is simply a switch that switches the connection going to the amp from the HT processor outputs to the pre-amp outputs.  If you don't mind the extra cables/jacks, you can implement one on any preamp as an external switch box. 

The advantage of HT bypasses on a preamp like the 2100 is it automatically flips the switch for you when you turn off the preamp.  (I'm pretty sure this is true of the 2100)

floresjc

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #10 on: 24 Apr 2009, 10:35 pm »
I bought the PS 2100. Lots of features, open box pricing. Brand new, not a scratch dent or ding, full warranty. 50% off retail, $417 to my door. I'm excited!

topher2411

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 15
Re: HT pass through
« Reply #11 on: 24 Apr 2009, 10:58 pm »
Isn't the tape output always fixed level?  If so, this doesn't provide a HT bypass function.  A HT by-pass provides a clean pass-through for a HT processor to the amps, which works for tape in/out, but only if the amps are connected to the tape out.  One would not normally connect amps to a tape out because that would provide no volume control for any pre-amp inputs (i.e. when in two-channel mode, you'd be blasting the tunes at max volume).

I actually had the same question.  My earlier post was simply forwarding what Frank said in an email to me when I asked about HT bypass.  He said you could accomplish it using the tape ins/outs and the tape input switch.  Not sure if that means that sources connected directly to the preamp can be sent through the tape outs to the amp, or whether those will sent via another output.  Seems it would defeat the purpose if two outputs to the amp are needed.

I'm sure Frank could answer these questions, but I haven't followed up with him only because I'm some time away from purchasing a preamp.

TJHUB

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #12 on: 24 Apr 2009, 11:12 pm »
I bought the PS 2100. Lots of features, open box pricing. Brand new, not a scratch dent or ding, full warranty. 50% off retail, $417 to my door. I'm excited!

You're going to love the 2100, I sure do.  I really love the features of this preamp and it may be one of the most underrated preamps out there.  The sound is incredibly transparent and you can't beat true HT bypass. 

TJHUB

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #13 on: 24 Apr 2009, 11:17 pm »
Logically, a HT-bypass is simply a switch that switches the connection going to the amp from the HT processor outputs to the pre-amp outputs.  If you don't mind the extra cables/jacks, you can implement one on any preamp as an external switch box. 

The advantage of HT bypasses on a preamp like the 2100 is it automatically flips the switch for you when you turn off the preamp.  (I'm pretty sure this is true of the 2100)

The last part is true.  The 2100 is automatically in HT bypass mode when turned off.  You can also select HT bypass when the unit is on.  One of the other huge advantages of the 2100 is it's analog bass management.  You can use your HT subwoofer for 2-channel music and with HT bypass.  It's one of the very few that have this ability. 

noshortcuts

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 32
Re: HT pass through
« Reply #14 on: 25 Apr 2009, 01:45 am »
Anyone looking for a digital solution?

My system also does double duty HT/Stereo Music. It is all digital so a cool deal like the Parasound would not be a great asset.

For music I use a Ipod with a Wadia iTransport dock that bypasses the Ipod's DAC to play lossless music files. I have an Onkyo 885 preamp, Sunfire TGA-7400 amplifier, and SongTowers.

Long story short, I greatly improved stereo music playback by using a TADAC with HTbypass. This is a high quality DAC and preamp with a tube stage. It reclocks for jitter reduction (the Wadia is said to be high in jitter) and puts out beautiful music that is textured, detailed, and very LIVE-ly. Paul at Tube Audio Design has just stopped building these but is at work on a new one coming out in May.


Nuance

Re: HT pass through
« Reply #15 on: 25 Apr 2009, 01:50 pm »
If it's any help, I emailed with Frank recently about HT bypass and he made it clear that his preamps and integrated could do HT bypass using the tape input and output.

It's not the same - not even close, at least as far as convenience factor.  The preamp would have to be left on at all times, and the volume control on said preamp would need to be set exactly to the same position every time when "passing through" to the receiver. 

If it's any help, I emailed with Frank recently about HT bypass and he made it clear that his preamps and integrated could do HT bypass using the tape input and output.

I guess maybe I am confused about this.
First of all, I was under the understanding that the Left & Right main channel outputs of your home theater reciever or processor should pass though the preamp unaltered on the way to the Left & Right main channels of your amplifier, in an HT bypass set up? The preamp signal is not back fed from the preamp to the HT receiver or processor and then to the amp. The classic reasoning is that the stereo preamp will have the better fidelity for classic 2 channel operation than the HT receiver or Processor, or you need more analog inputs that the HT receiver or Processor has.

As far as using the record input & output for HT pass through, that may work for psuedo HT pass through, assuming the tape in jack receives from from the HT receiver or processor and the tape output feeds the main left & right amp channels, but under this scheme you will also have to run a second set of cables to your same left right amp channels for the variable volume output of sources connected to your preamp.

My thinking was that a true HT bypass input simply routed the signal from the HT receiver or processor directly to the preamp outputs when selected and by cable on the the main left & right channels of your amp, without any alteration or preamp volume control affect. (In other words preamp volume control is bypassed). But signals from all input sources connected to the preamp, (HT reciever or processor, turntable, CD player, DAC, transporter, etc), left the preamp by the same output jacks going to the amp.

If I am confused about this, somebody enlighten me.

Nope, you aren't confused.

I bought the PS 2100. Lots of features, open box pricing. Brand new, not a scratch dent or ding, full warranty. 50% off retail, $417 to my door. I'm excited!

Wow - congrats!  I think you'll really like it.  Let us know your impressions when you get it.  Oh, and I believe AA has a 30-day return policy, so if you don't like it just return it.  If you still want my impressions on the Parasound 2100 in comparison to some other gear, see the link below.  Congrats!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16306471&postcount=1875