[wilsynet]

I'd like to find a NOS DAC for $400-$600 that.......

A. Inputs USB, coax and optical if possible

The only one I can think of that does this in the price range of $400 - $600 is the MHDT Lab Paradisea, which is currently on version 3.  There has been criticism in the past that this DAC converts USB -> SPDIF -> I2S rather than USB -> I2S direct, but I am not sure what the latest revision does as it is fairly new and there haven't been many posts about it that I can find.

[EDS_]

I'd like to find a NOS DAC for $400-$600 that.......

A. Inputs USB, coax and optical if possible

The only one I can think of that does this in the price range of $400 - $600 is the MHDT Lab Paradisea, which is currently on version 3.  There has been criticism in the past that this DAC converts USB -> SPDIF -> I2S rather than USB -> I2S direct, but I am not sure what the latest revision does as it is fairly new and there haven't been many posts about it that I can find.

THE PLOT THICKENS!.......turns out my MF DAC does in-fact pass USB input through the coax SPDIF!  So maybe I don't need USB as a feature of any NOS DAC. 

Set up right now.....

MacBook (set to 24/96, ripped audio CD content using Apple Lossless), CDP 16/44.1 through coax into the XDAC and out works as well
Crap USB wire
Musical Fidelity XDAC-V8 (tube staged turned on)
Cardas coax
Nixon DAC (don't know which one - but it's significantly modified)
Crap Radio Shack analog RCAs
Cary SLI - 80 (set to triode and 8 ohms out)
Kimber 8 - TC wires
Spendor S5e speakers
Gallo sub turned off

As set-up I can A/B the DACs - sort of.  Obviously, the XDAC is playing a role in the Nixon's sound. Regardless, I can adjust the Cary's input selector and do a poor man's A/B.

Frankly, both DACs sound great but very different.  The Nixon yields maybe 3db less apparent output.

More later.

[audioengr]

Here is the deal with NOS DAC's:

A good friend and customer did a lot of experiments and he reported this to me:

Testing some 10 different DAC's (which his friends all brought over), he first drove them with fairly jittery sources; a transport and a stock AirPort Express.  Every one of them sounded radically different, with the simple or NOS DAC's sometimes sounding the worst. BTW, Paradisea was one of them.

Then he redid the same test with the same tracks, this time driving all the DAC's from a Pace-Car reclocker with AirPort Express as a source.  This is a low-jitter source.  This time he reported that all of the DAC's sound very similar, with the NOS and simple DAC's pulling slightly ahead.

This makes perfect sense.  The simpler DAC's are often based upon older D/A technology, such as the Philips TDA1541.  These have little or no jitter reduction built-in, so they rely on the source having very low jitter.  Also, once the jitter is eliminated, the simpler DAC's allow more music to come through undistorted since they dont incorporate digital filtering or many analog stages etc..

This is why there are so many reports, both positive and negative about NOS and "simple" DAC's.  The equalizer is a low-jitter source.  If everyone had this, then the results would be more consistent.

Now that I have my own "simple" DAC design, I am experiencing the same thing, although the receiver chip that I use does a pretty good job of jitter reduction.  My philosophy has evolved a bit and I'm more inclined to design a really simple path now.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

[audioengr]

.

[audioengr]

.

[muralman1]

I made the choice to go NOS in my system 5 years ago after I hosted a CD player shoot out at my place. It is true that whether you buy into one or the other depends on your system. For information only, my system consists of Class D amps (H2O) it's stable mate preamp (Fire) powering Apogee Scintillas. My current DAC is the lowly Audio Note 2.1 DAC kit, reworked by the electronics engineer builder of my power gear, Henry Ho. The Speakers are the 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla.

My first NOS DAC was good enough to get a Modright Sony 999 SACD player owner to look to another source, the difference was so remarkable.

My newest DAC is game over unless Henry makes a DAC of his own. The sound is hard to put into words. All the players, echoes, singers are existing in their own plane of reference, and fully detailed out. The system will rock when called for. Never is the music offensive, unless recorded that way. Complexities is it's forte' as players are spread both horizontally, but pictured in depth too.

Is it perfection? Naturally, but that is a subjective observation, and only holds until the next page is turned.

Whether any component will champion others depends on the full system. A NOS DAC's naturalness can be strangled by a brutal amp, or constricting cabling, for instance.

[EDS_]

Here is the deal with NOS DAC's:

A good friend and customer did a lot of experiments and he reported this to me:

Testing some 10 different DAC's (which his friends all brought over), he first drove them with fairly jittery sources; a transport and a stock AirPort Express.  Every one of them sounded radically different, with the simple or NOS DAC's sometimes sounding the worst. BTW, Paradisea was one of them.

Then he redid the same test with the same tracks, this time driving all the DAC's from a Pace-Car reclocker with AirPort Express as a source.  This is a low-jitter source.  This time he reported that all of the DAC's sound very similar, with the NOS and simple DAC's pulling slightly ahead.

This makes perfect sense.  The simpler DAC's are often based upon older D/A technology, such as the Philips TDA1541.  These have little or no jitter reduction built-in, so they rely on the source having very low jitter.  Also, once the jitter is eliminated, the simpler DAC's allow more music to come through undistorted since they dont incorporate digital filtering or many analog stages etc..

This is why there are so many reports, both positive and negative about NOS and "simple" DAC's.  The equalizer is a low-jitter source.  If everyone had this, then the results would be more consistent.

Now that I have my own "simple" DAC design, I am experiencing the same thing, although the receiver chip that I use does a pretty good job of jitter reduction.  My philosophy has evolved a bit and I'm more inclined to design a really simple path now.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Interesting.

1.  Is the USB output from a MacBook likely to have high jitter measurements? 
2.  Is Delta-Sigma built into some DAC chips to "fix" errors or to help with jitter or something else?
3.  A guy told me NOS DACs are prone to alaising distortion(s) - what do you think?

BTW - I respect your drive to push digital music reproduction to its limits.  I check you webpage often, like now I haven't visited in a while.

[muralman1]

Unless you are using a modern NOS player, the highs will be rolled off. That will give the perception it isn't detailed. Audio Note is sins big in that area. That is what I have, but it has been modified by a brilliant audio electronics engineer who unleashed the highs, and strengthened the bass. The unit still has to die for mids.

But, distorted?? You make me laugh. I can prove to anyone it is the OS players that sound unnatural and distorted.