[tcsubwoofer]

Earlier this year I built a HTPC and I listen to all of my music via this system as I have copied all of my CD's to my hard drive.  Enough people recommend doing DA conversion outboard to avoid electronic interference and so I'll plan to do that.  I'll run an optical feed from my HTPC to the outboard DAC. 

Thus far I've been heavily leaning toward the Behringer Ultracurve 2496 which has been the subject of much review in recent years and other than reliability considered an outstanding bargain.   One thing, my speakers have to go closer to the wall than desired and I am interested in the Ultracurves parametric EQ to help control the lower bass frequencies if needed.  So the Behringer has really seemed to be the right piece of equipment.

I went to Guitar Center yesterday to check out a Behringer and the sale guy who has done recording for many years said that the Behringer's are junk and that he and most of his recording buddies really like Apogee as the industry standard.  He thought the Behringer's were unreliable and had a lot of noise.

That has taken me on a search for other possible DACs.  Really, the Behringer fit my budget for now, but it seems like Cambridge Audio's new DAC might work.  Although I loose the EQ and bass control ability.  Is there software to equalize audio signals on my HTPC and output as optical?  Maybe I can avoid an electronic EQ and use a software EQ and then just buy another DAC.

I am aware of Behringer Ultracurve pro DEQ2496 and Ultradrive Pro DCX2496, Lavry DA10's, Benchmark DAC1, Apogee Mini DAC, PS Audio DLIII, and Cambridge Audio DacMagic.  It really seems that the Behringer and Cambridge DacMagic hit my budget.  Although if I go with anyhing other than Behringer I lose the ability to control some bass response which may override any sound quality gained from another system (unless of course somebody has an EQ idea for me).  If the other DACs are so much better I may consider saving more and buying up.

[jk@home]

I started out using a Behringer DEQ2496 as an EQ and DAC for my Squeezebox. Didn't sound bad, especially with the eq gains. Recently upgraded to a Channel Islands VDA2 dac, which has much more finesse, depth, etc. 

Still using the Behringer, but now have it connected digitally in and out, with Apogee toslink cables. I do use a Monarchy DIP between the EQ and the CI dac, for jitter reduction, and conversion to coaxial.

Actually own two DEQ2496s, bought both used. Haven't had any problems with them.

Great thing about the Channel Islands dac is you can start out with just the dac itself, then later add the separate upgraded power supply.

The Behringer stuff may not be tough enough for pro roadie work, but does just fine sitting in a home audio rack.

[richidoo]

The Berhinger power supply is notorious for failing after about a year of use. Usually it is just the filter cap, an easy fix.  But the analog outputs are pretty lame, and that's not such an easy fix. DCX has some upgrade kits available, but I don't know about any for the DEQ.

Apogee is indeed the gold standard in pro audio DA/AD, but I would be surprised if it approaches the musical performance of a high end audio DAC. The true artisan recordists grow their own. Pro and consumer DACs cater to very different markets. Good luck.
Rich

[NewBuyer]

Earlier this year I built a HTPC and I listen to all of my music via this system as I have copied all of my CD's to my hard drive.  Enough people recommend doing DA conversion outboard to avoid electronic interference and so I'll plan to do that.  I'll run an optical feed from my HTPC to the outboard DAC...

Some questions please, for reference: What internal soundcard and software player are you currently using?  Are you currently running the soundcard analog outs directly to a preamp, or are you using software volume control? 

[tcsubwoofer]

Earlier this year I built a HTPC and I listen to all of my music via this system as I have copied all of my CD's to my hard drive.  Enough people recommend doing DA conversion outboard to avoid electronic interference and so I'll plan to do that.  I'll run an optical feed from my HTPC to the outboard DAC...

Some questions please, for reference: What internal soundcard and software player are you currently using?  Are you currently running the soundcard analog outs directly to a preamp, or are you using software volume control? 

I have a modest electronics right now - using a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 mother board right now and its optical output.  I'm planning on feeding the optical output to a Behringer 2496 (unless I find a better unit) and then off to my Outlaw Audio Model 2200 monoblocks each running a Selah Audio RC-5 speaker.  I am very seriously considering using a better DAC than the Behringer, but keeping the Behringer in line for room correction - I need to keep the RC-5s closer to the wall than desired.

I have been looking at the ASUS Xonar D2X 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card for toslink out (about $200).  I don't know a lot about optical outs from a computer, but I'm hoping that I don't need to spend a lot of money there.

I listen to music via Vista Media Center or Windows Media Player which are pretty good media management tools.  Volume is controlled through these programs or via my HTPC.  I love having all my music at fingers touch on my HTPC and also hooked to a 61" TV to view my choices.

[tcsubwoofer]

I started out using a Behringer DEQ2496 as an EQ and DAC for my Squeezebox. Didn't sound bad, especially with the eq gains. Recently upgraded to a Channel Islands VDA2 dac, which has much more finesse, depth, etc. 

Still using the Behringer, but now have it connected digitally in and out, with Apogee toslink cables. I do use a Monarchy DIP between the EQ and the CI dac, for jitter reduction, and conversion to coaxial.

Actually own two DEQ2496s, bought both used. Haven't had any problems with them.

Great thing about the Channel Islands dac is you can start out with just the dac itself, then later add the separate upgraded power supply.

The Behringer stuff may not be tough enough for pro roadie work, but does just fine sitting in a home audio rack.

Very interested in the channel islands unit.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I don't know a lot about DACs, but I do like the price point of this unit.  Any idea how it might compare to the comparably priced Cambridge Audio DAC?

[NewBuyer]

...using a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 mother board right now... I listen to music via Vista Media Center or Windows Media Player... Volume is controlled through these programs...

Have you considered using a high quality soundcard like a Lynx L22?  If your PC is quiet and works well for you now, then it doesn't sound like you actually need an external DAC.  There are many excellent DSP software plugins that would do EQ etc for you, and there is no electrical interference or performance hit when using an excellent internal card.  Cheaper than many external solutions as well, and you avoid potential S/PDIF interface jitter issues too.  What do you think of this option?

[tcsubwoofer]

...using a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 mother board right now... I listen to music via Vista Media Center or Windows Media Player... Volume is controlled through these programs...

Have you considered using a high quality soundcard like a Lynx L22?  If your PC is quiet and works well for you now, then it doesn't sound like you actually need an external DAC.  There are many excellent DSP software plugins that would do EQ etc for you, and there is no electrical interference or performance hit when using an excellent internal card.  Cheaper than many external solutions as well, and you avoid potential S/PDIF interface jitter issues too.  What do you think of this option?

Quite interesting and I hadn't considered that option seriously.  The Lynx L22 looks like a great card although it looks like it came out in 2002 or 2003.  It would be easier for me to use the Lynx AES16e since it has PCI express.  I may call Lynx this week to learn more.  Does it come with parametric EQ software?

It makes perfect sense to that recording technologies and audio technologies should merge and not diverge. I don't understand why audiophiles have to have their own brands of DACs while recording engineers have another set. 

I had bought into the idea that an internal card is subject to electronic noise.  Why would the Lynx card avoid that? 

Thanks for the feedback!

[NewBuyer]

The Lynx L22 looks like a great card... It would be easier for me to use the Lynx AES16e since it has PCI express... Does it come with parametric EQ software?... I had bought into the idea that an internal card is subject to electronic noise.  Why would the Lynx card avoid that?...

From the Product Comparison link at the Lynx website, it appears the L22 also comes in a PCI Express version(?).  The AES16e is a digital-in/out only card, so you probably don't want that one - I am assuming you would want to use the excellent DAC on the L22 card itself.  It does not come with built in driver-level EQ software, but there is a huge variety of EQ plugins - many of which are free.

I also think you would get excellent results from an EMU product - you might check out their website and specifically the 1212M PCI and the 0404 PCI products.  The 1212M PCI would take up both PCI slots on your motherboard, but is the better performing card (although both are excellent).  They also have built in driver-level EQ (among lots of other plugins too) that might do the trick very nicely for you.

There are many other options too, besides these ones.  Most people tend to overlook these internal solutions, especially since their computers might not be physically very quiet, or they might not want to open their computers to do an install etc. 

Also, the electrical interference thing in fact did at one time present a problem, back when computer AT/ATX power supplies were around 150W and very cheaply made (think Pentium-I/II era).  Not only is this no longer a problem with current ATX power supplies (most current power supplies are not even close to as wimpy or electrically noisy as their earlier counterparts), but a quality (thus usually expensive) professional-level internal soundcard will also be designed to effectively reject such noise as well.  For instance, the Lynx L22 is rated at an actual 117db SNR and dynamic range (A-weighted), that is, these figures are measured during typical actual-use and are not just the reported part-specs of the card components.

Anyway, I'm glad you are considering this other option of using a quality internal soundcard - it's good to have options.

[GHM]

I've had my eye on the Xonar HDAV 1.3 for a few months now. It has been released here in the states finally. I located it for under $200. A little more for the 7.1 which is what I want. Here's the site Xonar HDAV.

I plan to use mine for 2 channel and Movie playback. I have the PDF manual for this as well if anyone would like to look over it. I noticed it comes with a real time virtual display. Which allows you to move the listeners and/or speakers position with the mouse..it compensates and adjust the sound to the relative positions....pretty darn cool!

[mizzuno]

I am currently using the HT Omega Claro plus. Not sure if your looking for an external or internal dac. It worked perfectly right out of the box with vista 64, a huge plus.

http://www.htomega.com/claroplus.html

[tcsubwoofer]

The Lynx L22 looks like a great card... It would be easier for me to use the Lynx AES16e since it has PCI express... Does it come with parametric EQ software?... I had bought into the idea that an internal card is subject to electronic noise.  Why would the Lynx card avoid that?...

From the Product Comparison link at the Lynx website, it appears the L22 also comes in a PCI Express version(?).  The AES16e is a digital-in/out only card, so you probably don't want that one - I am assuming you would want to use the excellent DAC on the L22 card itself.  It does not come with built in driver-level EQ software, but there is a huge variety of EQ plugins - many of which are free.

I also think you would get excellent results from an EMU product - you might check out their website and specifically the 1212M PCI and the 0404 PCI products.  The 1212M PCI would take up both PCI slots on your motherboard, but is the better performing card (although both are excellent).  They also have built in driver-level EQ (among lots of other plugins too) that might do the trick very nicely for you.

There are many other options too, besides these ones.  Most people tend to overlook these internal solutions, especially since their computers might not be physically very quiet, or they might not want to open their computers to do an install etc. 

Also, the electrical interference thing in fact did at one time present a problem, back when computer AT/ATX power supplies were around 150W and very cheaply made (think Pentium-I/II era).  Not only is this no longer a problem with current ATX power supplies (most current power supplies are not even close to as wimpy or electrically noisy as their earlier counterparts), but a quality (thus usually expensive) professional-level internal soundcard will also be designed to effectively reject such noise as well.  For instance, the Lynx L22 is rated at an actual 117db SNR and dynamic range (A-weighted), that is, these figures are measured during typical actual-use and are not just the reported part-specs of the card components.

Anyway, I'm glad you are considering this other option of using a quality internal soundcard - it's good to have options.

Great info again - thank you.  My computer is in a temperature controlled built-in entertainment cabinet and, therefore, quiet.  So many choices!  Your recommendations as well as Xonar and Omega cards recommended by others gives me a lot of choices.  The run from my cabinet to my speakers will be long and I want to have the option to use balanced outputs from the card or Dac to the amplifiers which will be right next to the speakers.  This is to avoid "noise" and also its my general impression that using long balanced interconnects is much better than long runs of speaker cable.

I'm just having to make the leap of faith that music recording PC cards are everybit as much an audiophile product as stand lone dacs.  This is a new concept for me.

[mizzuno]

I did a bit more research and it looks like HT Omega has come out with a new card:

the Claro Halo/XT 

http://www.htomega.com/clarohalo_xt.html

It seems that this card has a built in headphone amplifier as well as removable (upgradable) op amps. You may want to look into this card as well. If you google it you will see many positive reviews.

[tcsubwoofer]

I did a bit more research and it looks like HT Omega has come out with a new card:

the Claro Halo/XT 

http://www.htomega.com/clarohalo_xt.html

It seems that this card has a built in headphone amplifier as well as removable (upgradable) op amps. You may want to look into this card as well. If you google it you will see many positive reviews.

Card is interesting - but doesn't seem to have balanced outputs.  That would be important to me. I won't be doing much headphone listening as my computer is in a cabinet. 

[tcsubwoofer]

...using a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 mother board right now... I listen to music via Vista Media Center or Windows Media Player... Volume is controlled through these programs...

Have you considered using a high quality soundcard like a Lynx L22?  If your PC is quiet and works well for you now, then it doesn't sound like you actually need an external DAC.  There are many excellent DSP software plugins that would do EQ etc for you, and there is no electrical interference or performance hit when using an excellent internal card.  Cheaper than many external solutions as well, and you avoid potential S/PDIF interface jitter issues too.  What do you think of this option?

This card really seems to be top of the pile in terms of fidelity.  Great review at stereotimes from several years back for the Lynx 2 of which the Lynx L22 uses the same circuitry and design, but strips some features (http://www.stereotimes.com/acc101502.shtml).  The review says the Lynx 2 card is certainly the equal of outboard DAC solutions.  My only concern is that article is from 2002 - have they not updated the Lynx 2 in 6 years? But researching it a bit indicates that using the volume through Vista or XP Media center hasn't been ironed out.  That means I have to have a keyboard hooked up to control volume.  That may not be an issue for me because I use a wireless keyboard, but being able to use volume controls on my remotes would be important to listening to music.  Apparently Lynx is aware of this if you go to their forums on their website, but although they have been alerted to the problem as far back as March 2007 they still haven't produced a fix after repeated and repeated requests from the HTPC community.

[tcsubwoofer]

...using a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 mother board right now... I listen to music via Vista Media Center or Windows Media Player... Volume is controlled through these programs...

Have you considered using a high quality soundcard like a Lynx L22?  If your PC is quiet and works well for you now, then it doesn't sound like you actually need an external DAC.  There are many excellent DSP software plugins that would do EQ etc for you, and there is no electrical interference or performance hit when using an excellent internal card.  Cheaper than many external solutions as well, and you avoid potential S/PDIF interface jitter issues too.  What do you think of this option?

Just called Lynx about the card and they said indeed it was manufactured in 2000 with no hardware changes, but continuing software changes.  He said it was still considered one of the best internal DACs on the market with excellent reliability.  Lynx just feels that it is a great design, still current and similar to McIntosh amplifiers - built right the first time with no need to change yet due to any sort of under performance.

Regarding the volume issue I will have to control the mixer slider with the software supplied with the L22.  But to use only a HTPC with L22 directly to my monoblock amps is simplicity!  This is an issue, but not likely to dissuade me from this card as I use my wireless keyboard a lot anyway. 

Newbuyer, saw your postings at the slimdevices blog covering this issue in greater detail (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42020&page=2).  Very helpful in understanding the L22.

[dweekie]

If using a sound card directly connected to a power amp, I would atleast try to add a volume pot manually set to a fixed maximum tolerable volume level as a safety measure.  This would safeguard the speakers in case of computer issues that accidentally send a full volume signal into the power amplifier.  It would like having a speaker protection circuit.  I use a modded soundcard myself, and I find it surprising how many people discount computer audio without even giving it a chance.