[fsimms]

On another tread, somebody mentioned the PMC OB1 speaker.  I went to look at it and realized that Jim could build a similar speaker that could possibly improve on the HT3.  This would also meet many of the goals that Jim told me at the RMAF that he had for a new top of the line speaker.   After listening to the SongTower, I found that it could be improved with a sub.   There is a better way though.

Build a three way transmission line speaker!   You could use the best drivers and have a super HT3 that had lower bass and be more efficient.  It could even have dual woofers to increase the efficiency, reduce distortion and slim the speaker.

[DMurphy]

I, and maybe Jeff, have been thinking through a number of approaches.  And I've built a couple of prototypes, which weren't complete successes.  One thing to keep in mind is that not all big drivers (10" +) are suitable for a transmission line application.  It may be tricky to find one that will work in a reasonably sized and not overly complex cabinet.  In short, it's not easy to improve on the HT3, given it's very high quality and synergistic drivers.  But we certainly are trying. 

[fsimms]

One thing to keep in mind is that not all big drivers (10" +) are suitable for a transmission line application

I was thinking about a couple of 8" woofers to slim the cabinet and maybe find some that would work with a transmission line cabinet.

[JLM]

I'm a TL lover, have been for over 30 years.  One of my absolute favs was an I. M. Fried model C5.  It was a standmount with something like a 1 inch tweet and 6 inch mid/woof in a truncated pyramidal cabinet.  Incredibly sweet with very good bass extension for its size, roughly 14 inches high and 10 inches square at the bass.  Lots of detail and imaged like a champ.  Back in the early 80's the kit cost $500/pair, but nobody wanted to build that cabinet.   

So don't forget TL for the midrange too for a statement speaker.

The concept was to add a variety of stereo TL bass modules to fit the room/taste.  They were designed to match the width of the C5s so you could use them as speaker stands or of course they could go wherever.  Naturally they could be bi-amped.

That seems pretty ultimate 3-way to me.

[DMurphy]

Replying to both posts above, 2 8" woofs, even in an appropriate transmission line, aren't going to give you the extension of the HT3.  So I'm not sure everyone would agree that speaker is a "top of the line."  As for the Fried, I actually have worked extensively with the kit version of the C5.  All I can say is that  the one that was sent to me was a sonic horror.  It used a simple series crossover that lacked baffle step compensation and couldn't deal with the woofer's break-up.  It just screamed.  Now maybe Bud Fried used a different crossover (although I don't think so), but I know he used the same cabinet and transmission line configuration.  The science of transmission lines hadn't been worked out when Bud was designing, and his TL dumped all kinds of higher order harmonic distortion into the midrange.  I redid the crossover  and the owner seemed happy. But there was nothing I could do about the bass loading.  That doesn't mean I would want to go with a traditional sealed box for the mid.  I've been trying to apply a transmission line approach to the mid section of my prototype super HT3, and so far it hasn't worked.  But I can assure you we'll be trying every possible option.   

Hmmmmmmmmm   I probably got a little carried away with the C5 comments.  It's possible that Bud worked some kind of magic on the one you heard, and it  didn't make it over to the kit version.  And a lot of enthusiastic owners of the C5 regard me as a devil man--unable to appreciate the benefits of a simple series crossover.  But I do have to wonder whether people are confusing an exaggerated midrange with an accurate midrange.     

[jhm731]

On another tread, somebody mentioned the PMC OB1 speaker.  I went to look at it and realized that Jim could build a similar speaker that could possibly improve on the HT3.  This would also meet many of the goals that Jim told me at the RMAF that he had for a new top of the line speaker.   After listening to the SongTower, I found that it could be improved with a sub.   There is a better way though.

Build a three way transmission line speaker!   You could use the best drivers and have a super HT3 that had lower bass and be more efficient.  It could even have dual woofers to increase the efficiency, reduce distortion and slim the speaker.

Salk suggests that the HT3 would retail for $12K-$20k.

When Salk builds a 3-way speaker that outperforms the PMC OB1i & EB1i or the Pioneer S-2EX & S-1EX for less money, please let me know.

[JLM]

The C5 was done near the end of his career and even closer to the end of his affiliation with Fried Products.  Soon afterward his the company waned product quality took a big nose dive and smeared his reputation, so its anyone's guess how close any of the C5s were to one another.  The C5 I heard was a LS3/5a hyper clone (kit) on steriods.  25 years later better drivers and changes in market direction/taste might well cast those speakers into a vintage light.

Like Vandersteen, Green Mountain, and other more recognizable brands, Fried believed in and used series crossovers.  I'm one of those nutty single driver fans, so perhaps I can safely say that even the 1st order crossovers aren't perfect.  No, Fried didn't have software that can now design TLs (like my babies are based on).  But as you know Dennis, the software only provides a good start, it still takes the chef's touch to cook it all up into something really outstanding.  Math doesn't quite explain the entire universe yet (speaking as an engineer).

The Fried TL stereo bass units I had circa 1980 were monsters and used a single 8 inch driver per cabinet.  They were rated to 114 dB at 17 Hz and overpowered every space I tried them in until I moved them into a 20,000 cu. ft. chapel (roughly 35 ft x 48 ft x 12 ft).  With a 20 wpc NAD receiver they sang like no speaker I've heard before or since.  It was a glorious performance.  I donated them on the spot.

If a midrange TL can't be made to work (don't know enough to know why not), the next best design IMO would be sealed, where the backwave is directed away from the driver.  Having a variety of matching TL bass modules to suit room size, taste, and application would be ideal.