Help Please: Trash the HT for better 2 channel?

Bingenito · « **on:** 15 Sep 2004, 01:25 am »

In another thread I am asking about the following line stages. I am having a line stage shoot out this weekend and will decide if I like the BC or Ayre. I could not get my hands on an X1.

Blue Circle BC3MKII
Pass X1
Ayre K5x

Since I listen to 95% music and maybe 5% movies I am even thinking about selling my Krell HTS7.1 pre pro and replacing it with an inexpensive processor maybe even a Panny XR50

This would free up some cash now I could stop there or take it to another level and sell my Sim Titan as well and drive the rears with the XR50. I figure I would have $8-8500 free to piss away on the $150 Panasonic and maybe some mono blocks for the main speakers. No tube power amps with my line arrays

What do you guys think of the approach?

Since the arrays are 98 db sens power quality is much more important then quanity

What amps would you look at to match one of the preamps above?

Thank you

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Sep 2004, 01:35 am »

As I posted in your other thread, the Aesthetix Calypso is an excellent linestage. A good match for the Calypso is the Jeff Rowland 201's.

This combo gives you some tube warmth and magic plus the dynamics and detail of the 201's.

As an added bonus, the 201's are small and put out no heat.

After the nice comments from this past weekend, you might want to think about SST's Son of Ampzilla (a pair in a vertical biamp) or Ampzilla 2000 mono blocs. Either sounds like it would be a good match with the Pass and Ayre preamps.

George

JLM · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Sep 2004, 11:18 am »

FWIW I'm a 95% music and 5% HT guy too. I have a rather low "need" for quality audio in HT and my family lags even farther behind me in this regard.

I started years ago shopping for speakers, and rather quickly concluded that with the budget I had in mind that two good speakers would be much better than five crummy ones. This was recently confirmed again after a listen at a A/V store to a $30,000 7.1 system. Compared to my $2,000 2.1 rig it was of course better, but I'm satsified with my stuff.

The new mass marketed digital amps are marvelous for the money, but probably won't keep you happy. Build quality alone (plastic cases, 22 gauge external wiring, total weight measured in ounces) is a turn-off. Sound quality is much better than the build quality, but won't compete in the league you've been in. OTOH with your 99 dB/w/m speakers why not try a $30 15 wpc Sonic Impact just for yuks?

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Sep 2004, 01:30 pm »

Quote from: zybar

As I posted in your other thread, the Aesthetix Calypso is an excellent linestage. A good match for the Calypso is the Jeff Rowland 201's.

This combo gives you some tube warmth and magic plus the dynamics and detail of the 201's.

As an added bonus, the 201's are small and put out no heat.

After the nice comments from this past weekend, you might want to think about SST's Son of Ampzilla (a pair in a vertical biamp) or Ampzilla 2000 mono blocs. Either sounds like it would be a good match with the Pass and Ayre preamps.

George

He doesn't need to biamp or go with the mono's since his speakers are 98db! 100wpc will MORE than do it.

FWIW, I sold my HT gear some 3 years ago and never looked back. If you are watching that little TV, or do care quite a much about swirling effects of movies then a top shelf 2 channel system can be really super satisfying on even the movies too.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Sep 2004, 10:18 pm »

The budget I work within is so dwarfed by the gear that you list, that I almost hesitate to post here - but I am a 90-10 split music to movies, so I think my opinion should be relevant, even if the budget is lower.

I use the best I can afford for 2 channel, and use a "servicable" surround setup - this, for me, means car audio separates ceiling mounted for surround speakers, and an older analog only pre/pro for Pro Logic. Makes my wife happy to hear stuff in the back of the room during movies, and leaves 90% of the budget available for sound from the front of the room during music...

Honestly, even with just 2.1, I hear sounds from above me during the boat scenes in Master and Commander, and effects way outside the normal 2 channel soundstage during most movies.

Concentrate your $$ on what brings you the most pleasure, and maintains an even keel in the house...

Mark in Canada

Bingenito · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 12:51 am »

Thank you to all that have replied to date

To clear up any confusion. When I said I could use a Panny in place of the Krell + drive the rear speaker I have no intention of driving the main speakers with a Panasonic.

I am very interested in hearing from others about the preamps I have listed in the first post.

PhilNYC was kind enough to send me a Blue Circle BC103 for an in home demo. I installed the preamp this afternoon and have been listening to it all day. To my surprise the bass is way better then the Krell. This is strange because Krell is known for killer bass. I actually had to adjust my line array output on the DriveRack to account for the added bass.

The sound top to bottom is improved over the Krell. I will try to post specifics after this weekend’s preamp shootout.

For those of you interested in Blue Circle products I can tell you that this unit is built like a tank. If I do decide on Blue Circle Phil at Sonic Spirits will have my business. He has been extremely helpful and I would recommend him to anyone that wants a tremendous customer experience.

Truly top notch customer service. Thank you Phil

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 01:01 am »

Having been over to Phil's place multiple times, I can also attest to what a great guy he is (on both a personal and business level).

I think this is the preamp Phil was using during the last visit in which we had our little digital shootout - Phil is that correct?

Anyway, keep us informed of how things go.

I just saw a killer deal on a Pass X2.5 on Audiogon:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1100559761

George

ABEX · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 01:20 am »

What you are proposing to do I have done already. Last year I sold off my HT setup because I could not justify the use of HT while compromising my 2ch. playback so I bought a Panny and will have another setup for strictly 2ch.

It seems you have enough capital in order to have the best of both worlds meaning you could purchase a frontent which will allow you to enjoy having an HT setup without having to compromise your systems 2ch..

Your enjoyment and taste are different than myself and others so only you can decide what will satisfy your experience.

Another option I would consider is trying a Passive Controller through FT Audio which I have been told is up there with some of the most expensive Actives,Jadis to name just one, and competes with just about any Passive out there for much less.

Good luck!

Inscrutable · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 10:19 am »

I too am weighted heavily toward music, but not as disproportionately as you. I think your proposition makes sense for how you spend your time. I don't have any direct experience with the preamps listed, save for a brief encounter with Ayre gear at CES - I'm not at all sure of the model preamp in the stack, as I was more intent on the Avalon Eidolon Diamond speakers they were playing through. I can say that for articulation, imaging and dynamics this was one of my favorite rooms.

I have two 'buts'

Do you expect multi-channel music to ever get done 'right' on a large scale (catalog) basis? And why do you discount tube amps with such high-sensitivity speakers?

Bingenito · « **Reply #9 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 12:35 pm »

Quote

Do you expect multi-channel music to ever get done 'right' on a large scale (catalog) basis? And why do you discount tube amps with such high-sensitivity speakers?

I do not really care for multichannel. If it ever gets right it will not be tomorrow. In the event engineers get it right I have rear speakers with the same drivers as the Incredarrays ready to get the job done.

Why no tube power amps? Assumptions on my part
* Need control over 18 drivers per speaker excluding subs. I assume a SS amp with a large power supply and high dampening factor will do a better job of this then a low powered tube amp- Could be wrong again just assumptions.

* Impedance Curve

PhilNYC · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 01:10 pm »

Bingenito,

If you decide on the BC preamp, of course I would recommend considering a BC amp!

zybar,

At both the June gathering and the recent mini-Rave, I was using the BC3 Galatea mkII tubed preamp. At tvyankee's Rave in August, we used the BC103 solid state preamp.

Thanks both of you for the nice words!

Phil

jgubman · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 08:41 pm »

I recently scraped my plans to get a new high-end HT preamp and instead bought a used Pass Labs X2.5 (for 1/2 the price of the HT preamp).

I haven't heard the other preamps you mentioned, but I'm absolutely floored by the performance of the Pass. It's very dynamic and detailed and has an incredible bass output.

My plan now is to just keep my Outlaw 950 and just keep upgrading my HT preamp every few years w/ something in the $1k range. I plan on keeping the Pass for many, many years.

Next to my speakers, the Pass is the most enjoyable piece of gear I've purchased.

KeithR · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Sep 2004, 11:02 pm »

Many great tube preamps out there...

ARC, BAT, etc. Cary has a new balanced version of SLP98 I think as well coming out. I personally prefer them to most SS preamps.

To me, your system seem quite complex, and I would simplify bigtime.

A single BAT 75SE would drive your system I'm betting (sans subs). 18 drivers, or not.