[BossaNova31]

I own a set of Omega single driver speakers that I drive with a pair of SET 300b monoblocks. I'm very happy with this setup, but often wonder what my 300b would sound like with different types of speakers?

Specifically, I'm curious about the Zu Audio Definitions, Coincident Eclipse or Victory or maybe a set of horns like the Avantgarde Duos  aa

Granted, all those speakers cost 2-3x more than my current speakers...What the single drivers do so well, midrange to die for, tone, etc. I just love. But I wonder if these others speakers can match my single drivers strengths but offer other things too - bigger soundstage, dynamics, bass.

Has anyone compared any of these speakers to single driver speakers with SET amplification? What did you prefer and why?

 

[mateo]

I can't say anything about how stuff sounds because I haven't heard it.

But, look at the Audiokinesis Jazz Modules, too- there's a recent thread here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=52153.0. They look really good...

[beeroclcock]

Hi BossaNova

you should seriously look at the Bastanis Prometheus, this works really well with 300b sets

thanks philip

[JLM]

In general tube amps have poor damping, resulting in flabby (loose, exagerated, bloated) bass.

Deep bass also requires more power.

OTOH, all else being equal larger drivers are more efficient.

Typically as efficiency goes up, so does colorations as trade-offs occur.

The Zu would have more of the coherent sound you have now.  The Coincident designs are at the opposite end of that spectrum and use power hungry crossovers.  The Avantgarde Duos lack deep bass and their speed makes matching to a sub very difficult. 

As typical of horns the Avantgarde speakers have a very forward presentation, so don't plan on nearfield listening.  Open baffles like the Bastanis Prometheus, also require lots of room behind them to sound their best, and have a unique presentation.

The Audiokinesis Jazz Modules look promising to address your wants. 

[beeroclcock]

I run my Bastanis with about 80cm distance to the rear wall and about 1m to the side wall with no problems, the powered sub and sealed bass units obviously help with controlling the lower frequencies and allow the 300b to concentrate on the mids and highs. For the money and ease of build they really are fantastically good value.

thanks philip

[Les Lammers]

Unless your amp has very good bass..and not many affordable 300B amps do...changing speakers will be an exercise in frustration. It may be cheaper and easier to consider getting a second amp.

"The Coincident designs are at the opposite end of that spectrum and use power hungry crossovers."  I tried Victory but it was Waterloo for me.

Have you considered a subwoofer?

[Tweaker]

I can't answer any of your questions but here's a couple of links to manufacturers of high efficiency loudspeakers:
http://www.daedalusaudio.com/design%20notes1.html
http://www.welbornelabs.com/recomendspeaks.htm

[PaulFolbrecht]

In general tube amps have poor damping, resulting in flabby (loose, exagerated, bloated) bass.

That is simply a completely useless generalization.  Tube amps - including no-feedback SETs and other no-feedback designs - are capable of delivering some of the best bass possible if they're built correct (output iron) and tied to the right speakers.

[PaulFolbrecht]

I have a provide a short plug for the Jazz Modules.  When I heard them at RMAF a couple years ago they were instantly different - in a very good way - from 95%+ of boxed, multiway speakers are there.

They are extremely coherent and have an very effortless sense of purity and ease.  When I learned they use Alnico drivers, I knew why.

Powered by an AtmaSphere 30W OTL amp they produced some of the best sound at the show.  Kinda like the Audio Note, AN/Es, they are very special and very different, but you'd never know it to look at 'em.

[JLM]

In general tube amps have poor damping, resulting in flabby (loose, exagerated, bloated) bass.

That is simply a completely useless generalization.  Tube amps - including no-feedback SETs and other no-feedback designs - are capable of delivering some of the best bass possible if they're built correct (output iron) and tied to the right speakers.

I agree that tubes are capable of deep/tight bass, but the warning is a valid consideration.  I'm glad that I had a chance to try before I bought because that is exactly what I found.

[Srajan Ebaen]

The Zu Definition Pro, Presence and Rethm Saadhana speakers all make ideal 300B candidates because

1/ the 300Bs drive a widebander or widebander + tweeter at 98dB or more sensitivity, in the Presence additionally a very benign16-ohm load
2/ the bass systems are active and thus not the responsibility of the tubes but, these bass systems take their signal from the 300B amp to carry over their 'aroma'

To my mind, this combo of hi-eff hi-impedance "head" and self-amplified "bottom" is ideal to hear low-power DHTs at their best. The Avantgarde Duo also fulfills that role but likes to see 15 watts or more, hence a paralleled 300B SET or even push/pull would be needed (one of my readers runs the Wyetech Labs Sapphires on his Duos to great effect). To say Avantgardes don't do low bass isn't true. They run 2 x 10" or 2 x 12" sealed woofers per side. I owned 'em. And being of controlled directivity, they work in rooms smaller than you'd think, contrary to popular notions.

Bastanis too follows this semi-active recipe as does the Emerald Physic though in the latter case, you'd have to supply your own bass amp. However, seeing this speaker must be actively biamped, the 300Bs wouldn't even *see* LF data, arguably the most ideal condition of all. You'd have to find out whether their speaker's top is suitable for a 300B amp. Based on the specs, it should be. Other speakers known to be 300B simpatico are the Ocellias and related PHY-equipped competitors. Ocellia even makes their own 300B SET and P/P for that purpose.

If you go the active bi-amp route, a lot more doors open to 300Bs which would otherwise remain closed.

[BossaNova31]

Thanks everyone. Those Jazz Modules look very nice. Almost like a bigger version of my current Omegas (which I will be upgrading with the new Alnico drivers).

So Srajan, you believe a strong 300b amp can drive both the Avantgarde Duos and the Zu Definitions? My monoblocks are the Manley 300b SET/Push Pull hybrids which put out 12wpc in SET or 25wpc in push pull mode. Not to mention that the Manleys have very good drive even in SET mode. The Duos really get my pulse racing.  I have read that they are downright debaucherous with vocals and have incredible dynamics. 

[Steve]

One minor correction for your future understanding Bossa. What is important is as close to constant impedance (Z) as possible, not the actual impedance. For instance, either 4, 8, or 16 ohms can be driven just as easily if the proper taps, 4, 8, or 16 ohm taps are used on the OPT.

As an example, if the speaker Z is decreased from 16 ohms to 8 ohms (ratio of max to min Z is adhered to) the current required to drive the speaker is raised, and the current supplied when changing from the 16 ohm tap to 8 ohm tap is also proportionately raised.

Another way of stating it is that if we have a 5000 ohm primary to 16 ohm secondary and a 16 ohm speaker, the reflected Z is 5k. If we change and use an 8 ohm speaker, then we need to use the 8 ohm tap so the reflected primary Z is again 5k. With a 4 ohm speaker, the 4 ohm tap for 5k. I simplified things as the speaker Z is not constant in most cases.

I thought I would add that with 8 ohms the current is less and the signal voltage is higher than 4; while at 4 ohms, the current is higher and the signal voltage is proportionately less.

Speaker wire could be smaller with the higher impedance, but that is for one to decide.

Hope this helps.