Headphone Lovers? = VMPS

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John Casler

Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« on: 10 Nov 2007, 05:17 pm »
As I sit in the Sweet Spot, listening to my RM40's, I wonder if those with limited space, realize that instead of a pair of Headphones (no imaging or soundstage, but incredible sound) that even in small room (or for that matter even a large well treated closet) they can have "headphone" sound, with "sweet spot" imaging and soundstage.

In most VMPS models you can sit very Nearfield (as close as 5 feet) and get the most cohesive sonics you can imagine.

Because so much of the MR is carried through the Neopanels and the tweeter has adequate dispersion, and bass is well less directional, the virtues of Nearfield listening with the VMPS speaker is highly recommended.

Nearfield has other advantages also, via the VMPS speaker.

It reduces room interaction, which is further reduced if you have the non-CDWG version of a VMPS speaker, since dispersion is narrowed, and less reflected sound vs direct sound is heard.

Also it reduces comb filtering from both the other speaker and the room reflections.

So my suggestion for those who may be "space challenged", or simply want  a system that is more like a Sports Car than a 4 door full sized Coupe, is to look for a space that can be well treated, allows nearfield set up, has less or NO WAF to worry about.

If you have complete freedom to assemble such a room/space, for a very low budget you can equip and treat such a space to have sonics that big living spaces with "aesthetic restrictions" cannot begin to approach at "any" budget.

Spare Bedrooms, Lofts, Extra Garage Space, Offices, Guest BR's, and other smaller spaces can be transformed into venues and concert halls, with far less expense, than your living room.

Lofts work exceptionally well since they geneally are "open" to a far larger space allowing for fare less bass problems (modes/nodes)

This is not for those who wish to "show off" your system in a pictorial in Architectural Digest, but a room/system for the true audiophile where, being able to hear further into the recording than ever before, is the goal.

For all intent and purposes, it is a single seat sport car of systems.  It is "headphones" with imaging and soundstage.

With VMPS, CDWG off will give you the immediacy of "close in, up close" feel to the performance.  CDWG on will give you a further back in the hall or venue sonic perspective.

This will also allow lower SPL's to produce "as much" sound as higher powers at a greater distance.  The side benefit is also lower distortion, and higher S/N overall, for a much more pure sound.

Bass can be a problem, but if you do a 2 small SUB push/pull, much of that is eliminated.

A pair of 626's, LRC's, RM2's, RM30's or even RM40's can be mind boggling.

Strangely enough a pair of LRC's or LRCjr's is incredible in this set up.

The space literally becomes "headphones" with soundstage and imaging, and that is the reason for the title of this post.

So again, if you are space challenged, and don't want to spend a fortune on room treatment, and the wife has the final say in what goes where, "A-N-D" you love the sonic purity of phones, you may want to consider something like this. :wink:



ecramer

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Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #1 on: 10 Nov 2007, 06:04 pm »
so what your saying is that all vmps owners should sell there speakers and buy a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880;s for the same effect or that i should spend thousands more to get where i am all ready at  :scratch:

lonewolfny42

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Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #2 on: 10 Nov 2007, 06:35 pm »
John....

Quote
As I sit in the Sweet Spot, listening to my RM40's, I wonder if those with limited space, realize that instead of a pair of Headphones (no imaging or soundstage, but incredible sound) that even in small room (or for that matter even a large well treated closet) they can have "headphone" sound, with "sweet spot" imaging and soundstage.

I'd say your correct John...

About two months ago I got to hear mjosef's setup. Matin's speakers....older RM 1's...first time hearing them. He's in a small room...tight space...close quarters...but it did sound very good. I had thought that the speakers might be too big for his room....but after listening....they worked well there...even at close range. Thats a nice speaker....I liked it. :D

                             Chris



John Casler

Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #3 on: 10 Nov 2007, 06:43 pm »
so what your saying is that all vmps owners should sell there speakers and buy a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880;s for the same effect or that i should spend thousands more to get where i am all ready at  :scratch:

Not exactly, unless you want the soundstage "between your ears", or "inside your head" rather than a lifelike presentation assembled in 3-D front of you.

Headphones cannot put a 3-D soundstage image out in front of you, unless they process the sound.  So if you like the headphone purity, this is the closest you can get to it with speakers, that also throw a great soundstage.


John Casler

Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #4 on: 10 Nov 2007, 07:09 pm »
Hi Chris,

Yes the RM1's will "fill the bill" also, but I didn't mention them since they are discontinued.

Not many have had the opportunity (or desire) to experiment as much as I have. 

The idea here is that you have a combination of elements that can offer some significant "sonic" advantages.

1) Nearfield reduces room interaction problems like reflections and some comb filtering effects.

2) It creates higher SPL's at lower power output

3) If the space is treated, it improves these qualities even more, and treating is far less expensive than in larger rooms

4) A more modest system acheives a higher quality sound

Now the sound can intitally seem a bit TOO immediate since most people are used to listening to their "rooms" along with their system.

It might be more similar to what the "recording engineer" hears at the console in the nearfeild of a well treated studio, but without the reflections of the console.

I always like the way "phones" took the room out of the equation, but they also took away the soundstage and images, and that I didn't like. 

This of course can work to varying degrees with other speakers, but is not really applicable to dipoles, open baffles, and designs that take "distance" to integrate the drivers.





John....

Quote
As I sit in the Sweet Spot, listening to my RM40's, I wonder if those with limited space, realize that instead of a pair of Headphones (no imaging or soundstage, but incredible sound) that even in small room (or for that matter even a large well treated closet) they can have "headphone" sound, with "sweet spot" imaging and soundstage.

I'd say your correct John...

About two months ago I got to hear mjosef's setup. Matin's speakers....older RM 1's...first time hearing them. He's in a small room...tight space...close quarters...but it did sound very good. I had thought that the speakers might be too big for his room....but after listening....they worked well there...even at close range. Thats a nice speaker....I liked it. :D

                             Chris




lonewolfny42

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Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #5 on: 10 Nov 2007, 07:45 pm »
John....

Quote
Yes the RM1's will "fill the bill" also, but I didn't mention them since they are discontinued.

Well....I'll guess I can count myself lucky for finally hearing those.... 8)

Hipper

Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #6 on: 12 Nov 2007, 01:53 pm »
Interestingly I started out with a normal, OK ish speaker system in my living room, no treatments or anything, but realised I'd never get a really decent sound so went for headphones. I got the best I could afford (Sennheiser 650s) along with a Headroom Blockhead headphone amp. The sound was exceptional but I still hankered for the freedom of not having something clamped to the head and more sort of space in and around the music.

I decided to convert a small second bedroom to a dedicated listening room and I now have RM30Ms, no subs, room treatment (and a digital equalizer which I find essential), with nearfield listening.

Occasionally I will listen to headphones and if I were to make a comparison, I would say you get something different from each system. I woudn't say one was better then the other sonically (actually I would, the headphones have to be more accurate) but there's no doubt that the speaker system is more enjoyable and this is what I listen to 95% of the time.


warnerwh

Re: Headphone Lovers? = VMPS
« Reply #7 on: 12 Nov 2007, 04:42 pm »
"I woudn't say one was better then the other sonically (actually I would, the headphones have to be more accurate) but there's no doubt that the speaker system is more enjoyable and this is what I listen to 95% of the time."

It's interesting you brought this up. Until my last set of VMPS speakers I'd never heard any speaker that could compete with headphones. My present speakers, RM 40s, are in a well treated room and if you consider the whole enchilada I'd have to say the RM 40's sound more like live music.

This comparison had been made with my Sennheiser 580's. Listen to both and visualize what live instruments and voices sound like (pro musicians rehearse next door and have for years) and the speakers win.  The size of the images and the way the RM 40's power my room convinced me that Ive got a stereo that is more accurate, to me, than very good headphones.

One area, bass, doesn't sound right to me through headphones because there's no vibration in the room. If you've been in a small club listening to acoustic or electric bass you know what I mean.

Please don't anybody think I'm putting down headphones. These are my impressions and opinions.
« Last Edit: 12 Nov 2007, 04:54 pm by warnerwh »