[shaynet]

I have noticed that some of the newer high-end receivers now are offering Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, but haven't seen many stand-alone processors with these features.  I am looking for the pre/processor only as I am transitioning to fully active speakers.  The NAD 175 doesn't offer it (though they state that they "might" later offer upgrades to do so), and their more expensive processor is not as up to date.  Do any of the other higher end processors offer this?  I'd love something with balanced analog inputs (even 6-channel), but recognize that it is not likely to find...

[rydenfan]

Take a look at the Integra 9.8

[JoshK]

I don't know of any pre/pro's with the lossless audio codecs.  I just bought the Onkyo 905 which has this (as does the 875 and Pioneer 92thx).  But I have come to really wonder why the infatuation on pre/pros (not just you but many of us)?  You get less and pay more.

You don't get the amps, so right there you should save a bundle right? Nope, you typically pay more.  But ultimately I haven't seen any pre/pro's really offer up a great deal more than the mid-high end receivers.   Typically they are boutique companies, without the economies of size and the quality control.  So you pay more for less features, typically wait far behind the current SOTA for features to be added, have cumbersome ergonomics and buggy software/hardware. 

I am not trying to convince you to do what I did.  I just recently decided to ditch the seperates approach in favor of a mid-fi receiver.  This receiver has preamp outputs should I fill the need to use my UcD amps to take some of the load off the receiver.  But this receiver even has a huge toroid transformer and seperate power supplies for video and audio and has reports to run 4 ohm speakers with ease.  I like that I don't need a 5 channel amp if I decide to use it as a pre/pro, since I can use the amps inside to run the rear channels which usually take very little real sustained power.

It just seems to be a more rational decision to go for the SOTA big name receiver even if you only use it as a pre/pro. 

[Big Red Machine]

Josh. are you getting "multi channel" in the display, or is it receiving and decoding the new codecs and showing you DTS MA, for instance?

[JoshK]

Don't know yet...I expect delivery of the Onkyo next week.  Ask Marbles, he got his this week.

[JoshK]

Take a look at the Integra 9.8

I don't know what the Integra 9.8 is, but I think the fact that it is Integra is a good thing, because it is a tied to Onkyo which is a big name mass market producer so it is likely to leverage all the niceities that that affords.

[ted_b]

Josh,
With the OP's active speakers (as well as with many of us who have very good main and surround amps) the smaller amps in a receiver are either redundant or less viable.  For the OP they are absolutely unusable (the speakers have built in amps that are tied to their crossovers and not bypassable).

The receiver market leads with most of the bells and whistles; the pre/pro market follows on, sometimes with a more refined or detailed capability (the 905 mentioned above is a perfect example; it has the feature set, but none of the balanced out capabilities of the later released pre/pros).  I used a Denon 4806 receiver as a pre/pro because it had some features I wanted in my HT, but the amps were clearly sonically inferior to the McCormack and Krell amps I was using as mains/surrounds.  Later, the Brystons and Carys came out with the same feature sets in pre/pros and I went that direction.

Currently, pre/pros like the Integra DTC9.8 and the Onkyo pro version (the 885) handle True HD and DTS-MA decoding.  They are scarce as hens teeth (I'm number 3 on one dealers wait list for the 885).  I own the Cary Cinema 11A and that company has a product strategy to umbilical its pre-announced 11V video unit to it. It's still vague as to how and where advanced codec decoding will be done (player, Cary boxes, if so which one, etc.), so I hedged my bet with an order for the reasonably priced Onkyo units.  

The advanced codec decoding is a topic for considerable discussion out there.  Few sources/players decode all of them; few processors/receivers decode all of them; even fewer manufacturers have clear directions on which way to go.  Aren't standard wonderful...and so many to choose from!!

[JoshK]

Ted,

You make good points.  The receivers rarely have balanced outputs, but it is easy enough to create a SE to Balanced converter, but this is extra processing, but then your hi-end pre-pro do the same processing, since I can pretty much gaurantee they don't do balanced all the way through.

My point was, even though the internal amps aren't needed, leaving them out, by buying the pre/pro doesn't get you a lower cost point.  In fact the opposite is true.  But does the pre/pro outclass the receiver, when the receiver is used as a pre/pro?  I dont know, but I am very skeptical that they do.  I'd put my money on Integra making a pre/pro that outperforms over a Cary or Bryston IMHO. 

[Marbles]

Big Red, I don't have a DVD-HD nor do I have a Blu-Ray player to test it out.

My quick review of the 905:  Audio only as I don't go through it for video.

Movies, sounds great, has a very low noise floor.  Runs VERY hot, give it plenty of breathing space.

Two channel music "Pure Audio" mode: I use my computer> Empirical modded Benchmark DAC-1>905 analog ins. Damn good.  Does not have as good of control of the bass as my Krafts, and doesn't have the front to back layering of the Dodd pre, but not bad.  Very nice in fact.  I could certainly live with it as my only system.

Multichannel music: Pio Elite 59 AVi using optical cable.  Really Really good for using a mechanical transport.  The sub is a very nice benefit and the DAC's in the 905 are very nice as well.

For music, it has exceeded all my expectations.

I highly recommend it to at least drive the 4 surround speakers and the center channel in a 7.1 system.

it does very well driving all 7 speakers in my system so far.

[PeteG]

Integra DTC-9.8 (I've heard it's a very nice unit w/balanced outs)

http://www.gspr.com/integra/images/dtc_98_rear_300.jpg
http://integrahometheater.com/zoom.cfm?m=DTC-9.8#
http://integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Separates&m=DTC-9.8&p=i

[randytsuch]

Integra is Onkyo's division for HT installers/integrators.

You can only buy from Integra dealers,  no online sales.

I am pretty sure price is $1600 for this preamp.

I am also pretty sure it is basically the same as the Onk 875/905 without the amps.  However, it does not support music over Ethernet, which I think the 905 does.  And, as stated, the pre has balanced outs, while the receivers don't.

Also, Integra's have a longer (3 year) warranty, and they supposedly use better grade parts, caps, in some areas.

There are long threads on all of these guys at avs

Randy

[JoshK]

Integra is Onkyo's division for HT installers/integrators.

You can only buy from Integra dealers,  no online sales.

I am pretty sure price is $1600 for this preamp.

I am also pretty sure it is basically the same as the Onk 875/905 without the amps.  However, it does not support music over Ethernet, which I think the 905 does.  And, as stated, the pre has balanced outs, while the receivers don't.

Also, Integra's have a longer (3 year) warranty, and they supposedly use better grade parts, caps, in some areas.

There are long threads on all of these guys at avs

Randy

FWIW, the good street price for the 905 is basically about that price ($1600), so you aren't saving a lot by giving up the amps, you are basically getting balanced outs and better parts.