[Stuartbranson]

Thanks for the invititation Chris.

Just received my de Capo I's the other day.  I am impressed straight out of the box let alone what a few months will give them.  I sold all but my sources in a bid to simplify and refine my system.  I had been using a bi-amp with preamp to active speakers and the road seem too short and fragile with all those interconnects, pc's.  I had tweaked it to death and decided that a good integrated and the deCapo I's (I heard them at Derek's) would be a much more elegant and musical solution.  My current  system consists of:

-MM De Capo I's
-Atlantis Reference XL 24" stands, sand filled
-Vaic 300b SE integrated amp with AVVT 302b output tubes for 15w classA
-Copland CDA-289
-Interconnects and Speaker cables are a diy design and build of Gregg Straley out of Chicago.
-Audio Magic Stealth power purifier

Like I said, the speakers are only about 40 hours old so I can't wait to hear them in another 100 or so.  First impresseions are of incredible detail and precision.  I'm hearing things I never heard before and subtleties of position are astounding.  Even the bass amazes me for such a tiny enclosure.  

Great to read the diversity and success in so many systems.


Take care,

Stuart

[gja]

Hi all,

My used DeCapos were fired up for the 1st time last night. Here's my system:

Grado "the Reference" 4.5 MV/ VPI TNT5 HR/ TNT stand/ SDS/ 12.5 arm/ Audible Illusions 3a/ Homemade teflon 30ga silver phono interconnects/ Kimber Heros to amp/ Cary Rocket 88/ Kimber PR4 bi-wire to DeCapos on sand filled two tube 24" metal no name stands.

The DeCapos and Cary have replaced American Hybrid Technologies Acoustat Model 3 five wire speakers with dedicated servo-amps. My goal in the next month or so is to determine my preference and sell of the less desireable speaker/amp combo.

I want to give the DeCapos every chance possible and fear that my low end Kimber cabling is introducing a compromise. Any suggestions will be appriciated.

Andy

[cyounkman]

gja - There are a few things I would recommend to make sure you're getting the best possible performance from the de capos (and the rest of your system) before making a decision:

1) Definitely replace your cables. Given the amount of money you have invested in your front-end (and now in your amp as well) your cables are IMO probably a significant weak point. With a TNT 5 HR, you have a front-end source that offers more resolution and music than most will ever see from their digital source--you should definitely experiment with cables that are in the same class.

From my own experience, I can recommend Van den Hul. The Integration Hybrid could be a good match, and The Second is an excellent cable in specific applications. I would avoid The Seconds for now because it is difficult to match; but in the right system it can be an incredible cable. A good match for speaker cables would be the D-352 Hybrid (I'm using these now, bi-wired) or, if you want to move further up the line (which I would encourage you to try), the Magnum Hybrid or the Inspiration Hybrid. The De Capos are wired with Van den Hul internally, so Tash often recommends and demos with Van den Hul. (Divergent also distributes the line.) As I have mentioned elsewhere in this thread, moving from Kimber to VdH made a huge difference in the musicality and coherence of my system.

I have also had fabulous results with Acoustic Zen interconnects, brainchild of respected cable designer Robert Lee (formerly of Harmonic Tech). The Matrix Reference is a great cable; and can be found used. I have also heard wonderful things about their speaker cables (the Satori), although I haven't tried them (yet).

There are lots of other great cables out there--these are just the ones I have experience with. If you have a dealer you have worked with, try a whole line at home (two interconnects and a set of speaker cables) that are roughly at the price point where you want to be in the near term (not necessarily what you can currently afford out-of-pocket). If you have audio buddies with a range of cables, so much the better.

There is also the matter of bi-wiring. Contentious, to say the least. See the other thread. At the very least, I encourage you to replace the foil jumpers that come with the De Capos with a jumper made of a quality cable. Whether or not there is a benefit to bi-wiring (with two runs of cable) is an open issue, but I would advise to at least try 'shotgunned' cable so that you have two sets of leads at the speaker end.

2) Experiment with speaker position and height. The de capo's bass response will vary significantly with distance from the back wall [I've just gone through a compelling example: I moved the speakers back toward the wall for a party last night (to avoid any unfortunate bumps or wine spills), and several times I went back to turn off the subwoofer only to find that it wasn't on.] Staging will also improve based on speaker position.

Speaker height also has its own thread here. I would try experimenting with books or something, just to make sure you have the right height.

3) Your amp switches between 4- and 8-ohm output, and also has a Triode/Ultralinear switch. Experimenting with all the combinations will be essential to get the best performance; of course the results may vary with repertoire (triode for vocals, etc.). I would take a look at Dan Davis' review in TAS if you haven't yet.


I can't find any information on your current speakers. What can you tell us about them? What are you trying to improve with this change? If you have dedicated servo amps, I'm guessing that the sound is very controlled--it will be interesting to see if you get the same sense of control from the Rocket/De Capo combination. Also, depending on how much bass your current speakers produce, you may want to think about adding a sub later? We should have a thread about that, too...

[brucegel]

This is off topic but after a long conversation about mic pres it occured to me that the "hidden code phrase for great tube gear is..."It does'nt really sound like tubes."

[cyounkman]

He claims that the new tweeter has a smoother but slightly more extended sound. ...
The way to tell is whether the tweeter is mounted w/ 4 screws (upgradeable) or 3 screws (not). However, the upgrade also involves a change to the capacitors/wiring on the tweeters; he said that this upgrade could be done to my speakers, and in my case (with my gear) might be worth-while.

WileyCoyote - Thanks. That is very helpful info. It looks like mine are upgradeable, so I'll think about it...


heavystarch - Thanks for stopping in. How is your Unico? I am always on the lookout for good integrateds, because my system has to maintain apartment-friendliness.


Derek - Hi and welcome. Looks like a very interesting system. I've heard good things about the Shanling SACD player, although I didn't know they made monoblocks.

What else can you tell us about this version tweaked for solid state amps? Was Tash referring to the pro version?


Mario - Thanks for posting. I think everyone here would agree that the De Capo i's are quite demanding of amplification.

I have heard the Quad 909, at the last show in Montreal, powering their 21L (or possibly the 22L). The results were very musical, but I didn't spend enough time in the room to say anything definitive. The 909 would certainly offer the benefits of powerful, clean SS amplification. The Quad solid-state electronics also, in my experience, lack even a hint of the fatiguing glare that is commonplace in affordable solid state.

I heard the QUAD II-forty separates powering the ESL 988 at a dealership in New York. The results were beguiling, offering incredible transparency and musicality. It's been over a year, and I didn't listen to very demanding music on the system, so I'm not that confident making a solid recommendation. With 40 watts, the amps would seem to offer sufficient power.

Since the De Capo i is both sensitive and revealing, I think it would make a fine match for Quad electronics. The choice between tubes and solid state would probably be a matter of taste, and will likely depend on your listening preferences. Depending on your particular tastes in classical, choral and rock, and on your listening levels and room size, your amp choice will probably become clear. If you could arrange to audition both, that would be ideal.

As far as the digital sources you're considering: I own the GamuT CD1, and I'm thrilled with it. It has very high resolution of detail but always maintains a seductive musicality.

I don't think I've heard the Quad 99 CD-P, but I remember Paul Seydor wasn't very impressed with it in his TAS review.

I have heard the Cary 303/200 sound good in a number of dealer systems (again in New York); however, I've heard it said that the Cary 308-T is now a better player at a similar price point. It does have a tube output stage, so preamplifer matching is essential. (The GamuT outputs 4 volts, so it is very robust in terms of driving downstream components, whether tube or ss, active or passive.)


Stuart - I am also a big fan of simple systems with high-quality integrateds and small, great speakers (like the DCs). How do you like the combination of the SLI-80 and the DC's? Let us know how things sound once they're broken in. What was your former system?

[Stuartbranson]

Hi  Chris,

Thought I'd wait to post this but my amp is still in the "hospital" after the postal service dropped it.  I had it running for one weekend and was very pleased with the sound.  The speakers were still quite new but already it was leaps and bounds over the previous set-up.  I hesitate to mention what I had before lest I offend anyone but then again it's really just my opinion anyway.   I had Linn Ninka speakers in the bi-amp active mode with 2 LK-85 amps.  The preamp was a Cary SLP-50a and I really enjoyed that. (probably the main reason I decide to go with Cary again.)  The deCapo's have way more depth and image resolution.  Bass is tighter and generally the musical experience is more convincing all around.  The Ninkas seemed to take alot of tweaking and did end up sounding quite good but, for my tastes, this present set-up is so much better.  Makes sense considering for about the same price I have speakers and an integrated rather than speakers, two amps, active cards, pre-amp and the requisite cables.(power and IC's)  Less is more....

Take care

Stuart

[Mario]

Cyounkman

Thank you very much for your comments and advice on my questions.

I will definitely try to hear the Quad/Reference 3A combo. Where do you think I can find a dealer that carries both systems? Take into consideration that I live in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, but I am willing to go a little off limits in order to listen to that combo.

Regarding the digital source, the Gamut CD1 is, as for now, at the top of my list (you just said the magic words "... has very high resolution of detail but always maintains a seductive musicality". Musicality (and tonal balance) is what I am looking for as the ultimate feature for my next system. Many systems can provide analitical high resolution of detail and transparency, but few can add seductive musicality to those attributes. Nevertheless, I am also considering the Meridian 506 and Linn Ikemi as very strong candidates!

Once again, thank you very much for your help and for the time you have spent with these questions. I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards.

Mario

[cyounkman]

The Quad US site lists David Lewis Audio (Philadelphia, 215-725-4080) on its dealer page.

R3A doesn't list dealers on its site. Contact them at info@reference3a.com.

[Mario]

Many thanks once again, Cyounkman.

Best regards

[mcrespo71]

Conrad Johnson PV 12
VTL MB 125
Rega Planar 25
Benz Micro Silver MC cartridge
Rotel Tuner
Parasound CDP 2000 belt drive CD Player
Monster HTS 3500
JPS Labs Digital AC
MIT 750 + II spkr cable
MIT 330 + II interconnect 2 pairs
MIT Terminator 5 interconnect 1 pair
3 Bright Stars Sand Boxes and 1 Air Mass
Vibrapods
BDR CONES
Sound Dynamics 300ti
Sound Dynamics RTS 3
Rega Brio integrated amp (back up)
Nitty Gritty record machine

and, of course,

THE REFERENCE 3A MM DE CAPO I'S!!!!!

[Dmason]

this is the set up for my back room stereo;

Reference 3A de Capo --Signal Cable double run -- AES Cary SuperAmp 20 wpc Triode --DaCT attenuator fitted into tooled wood stash box from local head shop -- Nixon TubeDAC --NEC Spin 6X CD-ROM drive with Hoeschler 12V toroidal TR., balun filtered PSU --Apogee Wyde eye interconnects --

This system has some serious synergy, and all around, is probably the most MUSICAL sounding setup I have heard, based on the fact that I know what real instruments sound like, both acoustic and electric. It also represents one of the most cost effective truly high end stereo combo I personally have come across, and to these ears, sounds better than my  Big Dog Stereo, with exceptional components and speakers. --Dan

[cyounkman]

My system currently consists of the de Capos, a VAC Avatar and an AVI CD player.  I formerly owned (and now miss) a Michell Gyro SE, w/ an SME 309 arm and VDH & Clearaudio cartridges...  

When I sold the Gyro, I bought an AVI CD4 Reference CD player (retail $2100 US) ...

My system still sounds very good, but it is missing some of the transparency/realism I was hearing before. Also, don't have ideal stands for the de Capos. Not sure if I should blame current shortcomings on the tube rolling, the cables or the source, but I know the de Capos/VAC are capable of sounding better. I auditioned the AVI player extensively against the Rega Jupiter, Roskan, Sonneteer players and others my dealer carried (he's really into British gear), and felt it was clearly the best of the bunch. Now wish I had auditioned the Audio Aero prima, the Cary, the tube player imported by Music Hall and a few others in its price range before buying. ... I'd be interested in any suggestions anyone has.

Coyote: I’ve just re-read you post while looking for a VAC Avatar owner. How are things now? It’s distressing to read that you’re less happy with your system now than you were before.    It seems to me that if you were getting great results with your turntable before (and if nothing else has changed), the problem should be in your source.

I don’t know anything about your AVI. In general, though, I ALWAYS audition components from multiple dealers (we're lucky to have a lot here in TO). Particularly CD players, for whatever reason. Before I bought the GamuT CD-1, I listened to the Cary 303/306, Classe CDP-10, Musical Fidelity A3, A3.2, NuVista, TriVista, and 308 CD, Wadia 860, Krell 280-cd, Copland 822, all the Arcams (except the new 33), the SimAudio Nova, all the Regas, the new/old Prima (which I owned) and Capitole, the Meitner DAC (which I could never afford), etc., etc. Obviously I didn’t sit down and do a level-matched ABCD-X comparison in my home system, but eventually you can learn to get a sense of what’s doing what, particularly as you become familiar with the sound of the components you tend to hear in dealer system, etc. With CDPs, at least, you know that as a source component they are a sort of ‘terminal’ determinant in a chain—a system will never sound better than the cd player that’s driving everything else. As such I’ve always been drawn towards very expensive systems (or just very good-sounding systems) that use relatively inexpensive cd players. This is often the case, I find, with the GamuT and the Audio Aero players in particular.

CDPs are very confusing in this way, since engineering logic dictates that differences between competently-designed cdps will be extremely small (I believed this for some time). This is certainly true in the measurements sense (when’s the last time you saw a meaningful cdp measurement?), but in the practice of listening these differences can become as enormous as those between other electronics, or even between speakers. For instance (random arbitrary comparison alert:), I think I would prefer to listen to my GamuT through, say, an old Musical Fidelity A3 integrated and a respectable little Wharfdale monitor than to my old Prima (or any number of other $1.5k - $3k players) in my current system.

If it sounds like I’m recommending that you try to hear the GamuT, I guess I am; although I’m not convinced that any number of well-implemented external DACs can’t offer similar sound quality. A lot of people here on AC, for instance, are waxing poetic about the naturalness and musicality of some of the non-sampling DACs these days – from Audio Note, Nixon, and others. The key here is to mod and upgrade wherever you can—my little ol’ Audio Alchemy DDE v2 went from bla to very respectable with the addition of the Power Station One supply (or whatever).

In terms of value, I’ve also been very intrigued by some of the modded SACD players from Modwright and others. Since power supplies and parts quality seem to be so important, this seems like a really reasonable, cost-effective path.

Anyway, let us know if anything’s changed.