[James Romeyn]

...the present quality of hd product is up there w/the best...

Doug
W/ all due respect, above is nonsense IMHO.  My buddy worked at the HD factory & another friend, an AC moderator, is an ex-professional race bike builder w/ much professional HD experience.  The first guy almost can not converse about the subject of HD, such is his level of distaste for the company, based almost solely on inferior quality & piss poor customer care.  The second guy can write volumes what's wrong w/ HD engineering. 

Have you owned an HD?  I have.   

It's been a few years since my Motorcycle Consumer News (USA not UK title, no it's not for people who eat motorcycles) subscription lapsed.  MCN publishes a professional & scientific statistical ranking of motorcycle quality.  HD is consistently the worst ranked of all makes.  It's a fact.  Placing HD on a similar level to other more reliable & better built brands is very unhelpful for the general public. 

Do an internet search for HD's ill-fated now-discontinued (I believe) 650 single.  One of the worst t-wheel motorized nightmares ever.  Forgot the model number.

Would you mind stating your sources?   

BTW, HD makes more profit selling lifestyle merchandise than motorcycles; such that one of the many ingredients that are part of the equation that determines the number of bikes for the dealer's quota is...the dollar sales of "lifestyle" merchandise as a function of square footage of sales floor area...the dealer acknowledged such when I inquired.  Walk into any HD dealer for immediate concrete proof of this statement.  Quite a bit easier to sell a stupid T-shirt &/or belt buckle vs. an unreliable $15k bike. 

YMMV
Jim 

[James Romeyn]

My '04 as well as the '07 are both fuel injected and both start and run without any issues.  And frankly, nothing else handles as easily as these bad boys and I have owned a lot of bikes, from Brits to Japs to Beemers in the 35 years I've been riding.

I've owned about 80 bikes including a HD.  The above statement about handling is about the silliest thing I've read on the subject of motorcycles, w/ all due respect.  Would you mind stating the bikes to which you are comparing the handling of your '07 HD? 

There are/were known, documented quite severe handling difficulties in the large HD touring models for several years in the early/mid 2000s.  The problem manifested as a severe speed wobble.  HD denied it till it reached almost epic almost class action lawsuit proportions.  Motorcycle Consumer News USA published many articles about it.  HD is so dumb they couldn't figure it out, but over time they advertised "improvements" that were alleged to improve the hanlding...stuff like frame/wheel reinforcments, yet the problem persisted.  I finally tossed my old MCN issues, but if memory serves a professional race bike frame/chassis tuning company finally found that the rear & front wheels were not aligned w/ each other, meaning one was following a different track than the other.

No idea what the poor slobs did who were stuck w/ $20k+ wobblers.       

Sonny Barger, Hells Angel (maybe ex, don't know) owner of an East Bay (SF) HD dealer, was quoted in City Bike newspaper about 10 years ago expressing extreme distaste for his current average HD customers, most of which were well to do uppity professional types, & if he didn't own the store he'd not own an HD.

[James Romeyn]

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=246

Scheduled fall '07 arrival.  An interesting bike IMHO.  Per the Kawi OEM website this model will NOT be available in...California (same as no '07 Ninja 650R in CA...you poor CA slobs...send thank you letters to AH-nowd).



For some reason the jpg from the larger photo would not post, sorry.  Go to the link to see other pics. 

[eric the red]

Here's the bike I just bought

[warnerwh]

I'd have to agree that the engineering and reliability of HD bikes is sadly wanting. They charge more than anybody else for a lesser product.  People can ride and spend there money any way they want. Even if I won the lottery I'd not consider another HD motorcycle. 

You have to give HD credit in marketing however. They kicked ass for a long time and still do well. It's kind of like the fact that a huge percentage of the public believe Bose makes good speakers.

[James Romeyn]

Can anyone see Eric's bike?  I'm looking at model "x"... 

[warnerwh]

Try this:  http://www.motorcycledaily.com/15december02kawasakiklr650.html

[jakepunk]

I like to wrench as well as ride.


BMW F650 in the operating room


BMW R1100GS anesthetized during transmission rebuild

Both patients made a full recovery.   

Eric, gongrats on the KLR650.  Those are great bikes.

[doug s.]

i have a buell s2; not it's not a harley, but it has a worked sportster engine making 110hp & 90 ft-lbs of torque 35k on it, & it's been pretty reliable.  and, cuz i like to go see new buells, i am at the hd dealership, & have spoken w/many customers, both the hard core bikers, & the yup set.  the yup set never ride, really, so i discount what they say - they yust haven't really put any miles on their bikes to know how they are.  the bikers have lotsa miles, & for the most part, they are happy w/the reliability.  re: service, i have had mixed results.  but, i also had mixed results w/service & dealers (and an especially bad experience w/the home office) when i owned my '83 honda interceptor.

again, harleys are not what i would want, cuz i like to go around corners w/a >15 degree lean angle...     no cruiser really does it for me.

doug s.

...the present quality of hd product is up there w/the best...

Doug
W/ all due respect, above is nonsense IMHO.  My buddy worked at the HD factory & another friend, an AC moderator, is an ex-professional race bike builder w/ much professional HD experience.  The first guy almost can not converse about the subject of HD, such is his level of distaste for the company, based almost solely on inferior quality & piss poor customer care.  The second guy can write volumes what's wrong w/ HD engineering. 

Have you owned an HD?  I have.   

It's been a few years since my Motorcycle Consumer News (USA not UK title, no it's not for people who eat motorcycles) subscription lapsed.  MCN publishes a professional & scientific statistical ranking of motorcycle quality.  HD is consistently the worst ranked of all makes.  It's a fact.  Placing HD on a similar level to other more reliable & better built brands is very unhelpful for the general public. 

Do an internet search for HD's ill-fated now-discontinued (I believe) 650 single.  One of the worst t-wheel motorized nightmares ever.  Forgot the model number.

Would you mind stating your sources?   

BTW, HD makes more profit selling lifestyle merchandise than motorcycles; such that one of the many ingredients that are part of the equation that determines the number of bikes for the dealer's quota is...the dollar sales of "lifestyle" merchandise as a function of square footage of sales floor area...the dealer acknowledged such when I inquired.  Walk into any HD dealer for immediate concrete proof of this statement.  Quite a bit easier to sell a stupid T-shirt &/or belt buckle vs. an unreliable $15k bike. 

YMMV
Jim 

[James Romeyn]

Anecdotal reports vs. number of warranty claims per bike mile showing on the odometer, where HD is bottom of the barrel.

I'll rely on the later.  Anyone desiring to rely on the former shouldn't be surprised when their pig oinks.  If their pig doesn't oink they are in luck, as the saying goes.

Re. your Buell: I know all OEM HP specs are overstated, but 110 hp on a sportster engine (even w/ Eric's mods) is way out there.  Reports of cracked frames from vibration on the old style Buells are legion; dealers even tell me to stay away from them.  My Ulysses vibrated like it was broken at idle; the way the windshield flew off & hit my helmet on the first freeway ride wasn't inspiring or comforting...held on by 4 little rubber grommets...smart...NOT!  How did engineering approve that?  People comparing Ulysses to my R1150GS w/ 37k faultless miles are dreaming IMO, with all due respect.  Yes it's faster but hey, how 'bout a centerstand & less shaking.  All may be forgiven because R&R is reporting a liquid cooled '08 Buell.  We'll see.     

With all due respect. 

   

[doug s.]

that looks nice.  but, at 400 lbs, make mine a 90deg v-twin.  in fact, make it 10 lbs lighter, & increase the torque by 70%.  (i am sure the hp is also a similar amount higher.)  of course, this one costs a bit more.     but, you can get one in california!   

http://www.ducati.com/en/bikes/my2007/ModelPage.jhtml?family=Hypermotard&model=HM1100S-08


doug s.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=246

Scheduled fall '07 arrival.  An interesting bike IMHO.  Per the Kawi OEM website this model will NOT be available in...California (same as no '07 Ninja 650R in CA...you poor CA slobs...send thank you letters to AH-nowd).



For some reason the jpg from the larger photo would not post, sorry.  Go to the link to see other pics. 

[doug s.]

you may be right.  but, when i can afford 10+ bikes, & a garage to put 'em in , you can be sure i will be looking for an american cruiser to put in the garage, not a japanese one.  and, no, this is not some gung-ho america trip i am on, as i am sure most folks who know me can attest!     but, imo, cruisers are about style, & i don't see much in any cruisers coming from anywhere outside the usa, not yust japan...

ymmv,

doug s.

Anecdotal reports vs. number of warranty claims per bike mile showing on the odometer, where HD is bottom of the barrel.

I'll rely on the later.  Anyone desiring to rely on the former shouldn't be surprised when their pig oinks.  If their pig doesn't oink they are in luck, as the saying goes.

With all due respect. 

   

[opnly bafld]

make mine a 90deg v-twin. 

Nice Duc Doug , but we Ducatista's prefer L-twin.

Lin

[doug s.]

hi lin,

some of us ol' time ducatista's still like to call 'em vee-twins.  i think i qualify, w/my ol' bevel-drive '78 darmah.   aa

doug s.

make mine a 90deg v-twin. 

Nice Duc Doug , but we Ducatista's prefer L-twin.

Lin

[opnly bafld]

hi lin,

some of us ol' time ducatista's still like to call 'em vee-twins.  i think i qualify, w/my ol' bevel-drive '78 darmah.   aa

doug s.

As long as the motor is a 90deg (and not a parallel) twin all is good.

Lin

[James Romeyn]

Ride the new BMW parallel 800cc twin to confirm (or change) preconceived notions.  I know this is silly but, really, a parallel twin is just a 0-degree V-twin. 

Doug
I couldn't care less what brand of bike anyone owns.  Not trying to be "right" either because I have no personal vesting in bike reliability except that I want mine not to break. 

Simply saying if anyone has independent scientific data disputing or contradicting MCN's report listing bikes by order of warranty claims per mile showing on the odometer at time of reported failure, I'd be interested in seeing it. 

Anyone really interested is encouraged to send MCN's report to HD w/ a request for a rebuttal & see if anyone there gives a crap.  I'll bet money no reply will be forthcoming, which I would translate as HD agreeing w/ the report.  The report may have been only a re-publishing of an AMA report, maybe even available at the AMA website.  I believe the report is annual.

Did anyone read the MCN report concluding the rise in SUV-truck sales is the single greatest cause associated w/ the rise in mc fatalities per mile ridden?  The author surmises that SUV's taller height = a greater likelihood of fatal trauma to major organs of bikers vs. leg injuries associated w/ shorter vehicles like normal sedans.  As a retired fire Capt it makes perfect sense to me.  If I gotta take a punch from Tyson I'll offer my thigh before my torso anyday.     

I'm not kidding about having owned about 80 bikes.  I stopped counting about 25 years ago at #57.  My new '99 Ducati SS 900 was delivered sans threads for the valve inspection hole atop the valve cover.  I guess Luigi at the factory just jammed/forced the threaded plug into the valve cover.  Nice.  Didja think it didn't leak soon after?  The day I sold it it developed a fuel leak, don't remember the source but thank God the buyer had just totally made his mind up he had to have the bike & still bought it.  But this is absolutely nothing compared to my Guzzi horror stories... 

Re. the HyperMotard: circa 90 mile range on the backroads w/ me in the seat (I'm way over 200 lbs & big as a sail on top).  Always fun providing fuel to the guys on the Marin SMR w/ guys on bikes w/ short fuel range like the HM, especially when going further north beyond Pt Reyes.  I'd take the MultiStrada in spite of its looks.  Other than range, though, I admit the HM seems about PURFECT.  Got Larry Pegram's autograph at the Ducati trailer at Toole AMA Superbike last Sunday...     

[jakepunk]

Drivers distracted by cellphones scare me more than what type of vehicle they drive.

[doug s.]

as i said before, i defer to your comments about hd.

i also agree that suv's likely contribute to greater accident/death rates among motorcyclists.  it's certainly true for cars, so why not bikes?  besides the greater & higher mass, there's the reduced wisibility factor.

re: the new bmw parallel twins, they look sweet, for sure, but i have never really liked in-line engines in bikes, when compared to other choices.  i really like the bmw boxers.  if i had $24 large, i'd certainly wanna play w/one of these:

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/etc/utils.jsp?t=articles&idx=0



or save a coupla grand, & yust get the road wheels installed on one of these:

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=hp2


if you're a big lunk, (at 6'-0", 158lbs, i don't have these issues!    ), you would be better off w/a ducati monster, not the hypermoto, methinks.  or, the multistrada, as you say.  which, i happen to think looks really cool, btw.  there is a nice multistrada "s" on the local craigslist here, for $6400; i am so tempted!   aa  re: the guzzi's, my g/f has an old 850 t3 holed up in new mexico, we're trying to figure out how to get it crated up & shipped here.  that thing took her all over the usa...

doug s.

Ride the new BMW parallel 800cc twin to confirm (or change) preconceived notions.  I know this is silly but, really, a parallel twin is just a 0-degree V-twin. 

Doug
I couldn't care less what brand of bike anyone owns.  Not trying to be "right" either because I have no personal vesting in bike reliability except that I want mine not to break. 

Simply saying if anyone has independent scientific data disputing or contradicting MCN's report listing bikes by order of warranty claims per mile showing on the odometer at time of reported failure, I'd be interested in seeing it. 

Anyone really interested is encouraged to send MCN's report to HD w/ a request for a rebuttal & see if anyone there gives a crap.  I'll bet money no reply will be forthcoming, which I would translate as HD agreeing w/ the report.  The report may have been only a re-publishing of an AMA report, maybe even available at the AMA website.  I believe the report is annual.

Did anyone read the MCN report concluding the rise in SUV-truck sales is the single greatest cause associated w/ the rise in mc fatalities per mile ridden?  The author surmises that SUV's taller height = a greater likelihood of fatal trauma to major organs of bikers vs. leg injuries associated w/ shorter vehicles like normal sedans.  As a retired fire Capt it makes perfect sense to me.  If I gotta take a punch from Tyson I'll offer my thigh before my torso anyday.     

I'm not kidding about having owned about 80 bikes.  I stopped counting about 25 years ago at #57.  My new '99 Ducati SS 900 was delivered sans threads for the valve inspection hole atop the valve cover.  I guess Luigi at the factory just jammed/forced the threaded plug into the valve cover.  Nice.  Didja think it didn't leak soon after?  The day I sold it it developed a fuel leak, don't remember the source but thank God the buyer had just totally made his mind up he had to have the bike & still bought it.  But this is absolutely nothing compared to my Guzzi horror stories...

Re. the HyperMotard: circa 90 mile range on the backroads w/ me in the seat (I'm way over 200 lbs & big as a sail on top).  Always fun providing fuel to the guys on the Marin SMR w/ guys on bikes w/ short fuel range like the HM, especially when going further north beyond Pt Reyes.  I'd take the MultiStrada in spite of its looks.  Other than range, though, I admit the HM seems about PURFECT.  Got Larry Pegram's autograph at the Ducati trailer at Toole AMA Superbike last Sunday...     

[eric the red]

I think the newly redesigned KLR 650 looks pretty sharp if you're looking for a cheap, do it all bomb-proof go anywhere bike with lots of aftermarket parts available.

[James Romeyn]

I think the newly redesigned KLR 650 looks pretty sharp if you're looking for a cheap, do it all bomb-proof go anywhere bike with lots of aftermarket parts available.

wut he said