[James Romeyn]

Though I've never heard them I assume the Scott tube tuners that Mapleshade upgrades are among the best in pure sound quality.  On an absolute scale how does the Onkyo T-9 tuner rate?  I never heard it either, but intend to shortly after my move to northern Utah (don't know about FM availability there, but am curious anyway).

Thanks.

[warnerwh]

Jim: If you have a PBR station in your area you would be well advised to buy a vintage tuner and have it modded. My modded tuner has sound quality that I never thought was possible from an FM tuner. My favorite station broadcasts nearly or completely uncompressed jazz. Also a decent roof top antenna is highly recommended. Even the cheap Rat shack yagi will outperform expensive indoor antennas.

There's good info on fmtunerinfo.com. Also the fm tuners group on Yahoo has people who know more about every tuner ever made than anyone could ever want to know. If you want any more help just email me.

[Doublej]

I own one. It's a solid but not spectacular performer. I wouldn't invest much money in having one modded nor would I seek another out if the one I owned needed to be replaced.

[James Romeyn]

Thanks for the replies.

The local PBS station from USU plays gorgeous classical music.  I may invest in a Scott tube tuner & do some mods to it.  Pierre Sprey's (Mapleshade) description of his Scott upgrade sounds very very tempting.  To think those old Scott tuners used to be practically tossed away before they were discovered!

The SF fire dept obviously "upgraded" to solid state pa systems for dispatches many decades ago.  Years ago one of the old timers at the radio shop told me they just tossed the Western Electric (GE) tube amps when the newer, better ss arrived!  You just know some of those amps ended up in the home systems of the installers.  Can you just see them laying on top a dumpster pile IFO a firehouse?  They like those old WE amps in Asia.  Many firehouses still have Dukane fullrange pa speakers.     

[Nels Ferre]

I agree with DoubleJ. I had one. I used it, I sold it, I don't miss it.

I have a Carver TX-11 now. It's OK.  The Onkyo was probably better.

No more tuners for me until I can swing a modded McIntosh MR-78 or preferrably, a mint Marantz 10B.

[TheChairGuy]

Why bother with any of 'em?....I mean, FM is such a low fidelity source, overall    Never quite understood the reasoning of paying anything more than $50 for an old tuner that, ideally, pulls in fairly far away stations (got a JVC tuner that does that well and cost $40 at Goodwill).

If I was in the market for a tuner, and I might be soon, I'd get one with built-in HD Radio technology....like this one: http://www.sangean.com/product.php?model=HDT-1

These guys make shortwave radio's for many years, so it's apt to pull in a lot of stations fairly well.  And, you get the considerably better technology of HD Radio for those that broadcast in it (about 1100 stations nationwide in US now).

Jim/Ribbonspeakers.....you might want to check out in advance how many stations where you live now broadcast in HD Radio (it might be few or none  )

[James Romeyn]

Thanks for the tip about HD radio, John, I appreciate it!

Nels, have you heard an upgraded Scott tuner?  What do you think about Pierre Sprey's assesment that it equals the Marantz 10B?  Isn't it mind-boggling that a properly running tuner built 40 years ago hasn't been surpassed? 

[TheChairGuy]

Jim,

The Sangean is only $200 shipped from a variety of retailers and it has remote control, too.  Further, there's no specs to go out of alignment for a while as it's new.

I'm really no judge for FM sound quality (the nature of the technology is very low fi, in itself), but the nature of HD Radio (at least, in theory) is leagues better in execution: much wider dynamic range and higher S/N ratio's.

Go to www.HDRadio.com to see what stations already broadcast in HD Radio in your area.  If you still lived here in SF you'd hear these:

San Francisco, CA     102.1     KDFC-HD1     FM     Classical      Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    102.1-2    KDFC-HD2    FM    Classical Deep Cuts    Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    104.5    KFOG-HD1    FM    AAA    Cumulus Media Partners
San Francisco, CA    104.5-2    KFOG-HD2    FM    Hit Music    Cumulus Media Partners
San Francisco, CA    99.7    KFRC-HD1    FM    Rhymc/AC    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    99.7-2    KFRC-HD2    FM    Country    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    101.3    KIOI-HD1    FM    80s Hits    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    101.3-2    KIOI-HD2    FM    80's Hits    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    98.1    KISQ-HD1    FM    Rhythm/Blue    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    98.1-2    KISQ-HD2    FM    Classic Hip Hop    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    105.3    KITS-HD1    FM    Alternative    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    105.3-2    KITS-HD2    FM    All New Music    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    103.7    KKSF-HD1    FM    Smooth Jazz    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    103.7-2    KKSF-HD2    FM    Traditional Jazz    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    97.3    KLLC-HD1    FM    AC    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    97.3-2    KLLC-HD2    FM    Chill    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    95.7    KMAX-HD1    FM    Clsc Hits    Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    95.7-2    KMAX-HD2    FM    Disco    Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    106.1    KMEL-HD1    FM    HpHop/RhyBl    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    106.1-2    KMEL-HD2    FM    Urban - xtreme hip hop    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    96.5    KOIT-HD1    FM    Soft AC    Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    96.5-2    KOIT-HD2    FM    50's 60's oldies    Entercom Communications Corp.
San Francisco, CA    107.7    KSAN-HD1    FM    Rock    Cumulus Media Partners
San Francisco, CA    107.7-2    KSAN-HD2    FM    New Rock    Cumulus Media Partners
San Francisco, CA    94.9    KYLD-HD1    FM    CHR/Dance    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    94.9-2    KYLD-HD2    FM    Wild Hispanic    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    92.3    KSJO-HD1    FM    Span/Oldes    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    92.3-2    KSJO-HD2    FM    Hispanic Hits    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    91.7    KALW-HD1    FM    Nws/Tlk/Inf    San Francisco Unified School District
San Francisco, CA    100.3    KBRG-HD1    FM    Span/Oldes    Univision Radio
San Francisco, CA    91.1    KCSM-HD1    FM    Jazz    San Mateo County Community College
San Francisco, CA    106.9    KIFR-HD1    FM    Talk    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    106.9-2    KIFR-HD2    FM    KCBS News    CBS Radio
San Francisco, CA    910    KNEW-HD    AM    Talk    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    88.5    KQED-HD1    FM    Nws/Tlk/Inf    KQED, Inc.
San Francisco, CA    960    KQKE-HD    AM    Talk    Clear Channel Radio
San Francisco, CA    1050    KTCT-HD    AM    Sports    Cumulus Media Partners
Market    FrequencySorted by StnFreq    Call Sign    Band    Format    Owner

There are 22 stations in San Francisco, CA broadcasting 37 HD Radio channels, more coming soon*

[Nels Ferre]

Thanks for the tip about HD radio, John, I appreciate it!

Nels, have you heard an upgraded Scott tuner?  What do you think about Pierre Sprey's assesment that it equals the Marantz 10B?  Isn't it mind-boggling that a properly running tuner built 40 years ago hasn't been surpassed? 

No I haven't. I do have a few of his recordings, and I believe that our tastes are different. I don't use them for sonics when I am reviewing, and I rarely listen to them for enjoyment.

Mind boggling? Not really. Tuner performance slid badly because broadcast quality slid badly. Back when the classic tuners were new, I believe the engineers at the radio stations believed in broadcasting a quality signal. Now they compress the signal to death so they get more distance, so they can get more advertising revenue.

PBS FM stations, as well as some college stations, still do a quality job.  Most everything else is trash.

[James Romeyn]

Nels
Ditto...the local USU station broadcasts PBS & great classical music; sound quality seems very high, much higher than general fm trash. 

My general impressions about Pierre's sound & music may match yours.  That Sunny Sumter thing is virtually unlistenable to me.  But there are at least a few of his CD's I haven't heard that I might really enjoy per his advertising text.  I'm NOT a fan of silver wire, which he still prefers, I believe.  IMO he seems to make some audio proclamations as if they are gospel & universal, whereas my experience is that there can be variables which may alter the reliability of the advice.  TAS & SP really love some of his CD's.  No matter what you gotta love his fanaticism!  I'd love to hear one of his Scott tuners.



   

[doug s.]

a bit about tunas.  (i have owned >80 different tunas over the past 6 years, or so, & still have ~20.)

1st off, if you have a quality station you like, that is broadcasting a quality signal, the sound will easily rival the best digital & analog sources.  re: hybrid digital radio, (hd), the sound compression algorithms will ensure the quality will, at best, equal mp3.

re: the onkyo in question, i have never heard one, but it seems to get mixed reviews.  some folks say it's good if properly aligned.

re: the scotts, i haven't heard one modded by mapleshade, but i had a refurb'd 310d w/the mpx335 decoder.  this, along w/the stereo 310e are acknowledged by most scott tuna aficionados as being the best sounding scots, even better than the far pricier 4310.  my 310d/335 combo was certainly nice, but its sonics were surpassed by a never serviced stromberg-carlson sr445 (~$50), & by a stock never serviced sherwood s3000lll, (~$75), both used w/outboard mpx stereo decoders. in fact, these tunas are about as good as it gets sonically, imo.  the sensitivity of the s-c's is poor, tho; the sherwoods are as good as it gets reception-wise, for vintage tubed tunas.  and my slightly modded stereo sherwood s3000v (~$100-$250), is also a stellar performer in all respects.  in fact, i prefer it over my modded-to-the-gills mcintosh mr65b, tho the mac is a fantastic tuna, & better than the scott combo i had.

re: other mac tunas, even richard modaferri, the mac mr78 guru, says a mr77 will outperform a modaferri-modded mr78 for sonics, tho the mr78 will have better reception in marginal signal conditions.  based upon my experience w/a refurb'd aligned mr77, i would recommend avoiding the mac s/s tunas.  stick w/a refurb'd mr65b, mr67, or mr71 if you have to have a mcintosh tuna.  my mr77 was one of only 2-3 tunas i have owned that i would not be satisfied with, as a a tuna source, due to its so-so sonics.

re: the marantz tunas, most tuna fans that appreciate the marantz's will tell you that the solid-state 20 & 20b are better sonically than the iconic 10b.  i owned a refurb'd slightly modded 20; it was nice, but not a world-beater, by any stretch.  most tuna fanatics will tell you the 10b, while nice, is highly over-rated, & is really only a collector piece, whose performance is bettered by any number of other choices.

other tunas i presently own w/excellent sonics & reception include, (in no particular order), revox b261, modded sansui tu-x1, modded sansui tu9900, modded hk citation 18, onix bwd1/soap-2, aiwa at-9700u, rotel rht10, roksan caspian, hitachi ft8000 (sonic/reception bargain - as good as two tandberg 3001a's,  one refurb'd, i used to own), refurb'd modded heathkit aj1600, refurb'd accuphase t100, denon tu-900, modded mcintosh mr65b...

ymmv,

doug s.

[doug s.]

another comment about mapleshade scott mods.  these are actually performed by foster blair, who used to live quite near mapleshade.  now, i understand, he's a few hours away.  if you're wanting your scott gear serviced/modded, just go to him directly - you will likely get a better price.  his info can be found on the net & at fmtunerinfo.com

doug s.

[Nels Ferre]

Doug,

You may be right. But it's not all about performance for me (gasp, did I say that?) There is also pride of ownership. For example, I'd far rather own a restored Triumph TR-6 than any Mazda Miata.  The Miata, although far superior technically, is common and has no soul.

[doug s.]

Doug,

You may be right. But it's not all about performance for me (gasp, did I say that?) There is also pride of ownership. For example, I'd far rather own a restored Triumph TR-6 than any Mazda Miata.  The Miata, although far superior technically, is common and has no soul.

hi nels,

poor analogy, imo.  as someone who uses alfa romeos for daily drivers, i can relate to "soul" re: cars.     my weekend car is a de tomaso pantera, and i have a hotted-up '95 buell & a '78 ducati darmah that also have plenty of soul "and" performance.  when it comes to tunas, i want the best sonics, period.  of course, it helps if i get good reception, too.  and, i do admit i prefer the looks & ergo's of some tunas over others.  but if the performance ain't there, then forget it.

best,

doug s.

[mcrespo71]

You have 20 tunas?  Damn, you have the addiction bad!

I use a Luxman T-02 and it is very sensitive and nice sounding, though I don't have that much experience with tuners.  It sounded better than the Rotel Rt 990 it replaced and was quite a bit cheaper, so that was cool.

[doug s.]

You have 20 tunas?  Damn, you have the addiction bad!

I use a Luxman T-02 and it is very sensitive and nice sounding, though I don't have that much experience with tuners.  It sounded better than the Rotel Rt 990 it replaced and was quite a bit cheaper, so that was cool.

ya, 20 tunas is a bit much, i guess...     nels is right, in one sense - "soul" is important, which is why i have too many tunas.   

i owned the lux t-12, supposedly their best sounding tuna.  it was excellent sounding, near the best out there, imo.  but its sensitivity was a bit off the pace.  if your t-02 sounds better than the rotel rt990, it must be nice - the rt990 has been compared to the rotel rht10, where it's "almost as good", & the rht10 is one of the best sounding tunas ever made.  some would say the rht-10 is "the best", but i don't think you can assign that title to "any" tuna.  too many wariables re: reception conditions, station equipment, listener tastes...

enjoy,

doug s.