EX-6.5 Prototype pics

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Kevin Haskins

EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« on: 12 Mar 2007, 08:44 pm »
As promised... here are some quick prototype pictures of our new driver.   This was one of the prototypes that had a carbon fiber cone.   We nixed this particular design choice due to FR problems (large dip centered on 1.2K) and the production model uses a treated paper cone.    On my standard test box (PE 0.75ft^3 cabinet) it has one of the smoothest response curves I've ever measured.   It beats out even the Seas CA18RNX that held that position formerly for smoothest frequency response from 200Hz-3.5K.

The motor design is pretty cool.  Of course its XBL^2 for a large flat BL curve.   This motor has about the same BL curve as the Extremis.   The voice coil is a large 1.5" unit for  killer power handling.   The combination of perimeter cooling holes along with the phase plug (no dustcap) not only allows good venting, the design forces a steady flow of air through the gap across the former/voicecoil.   Since about 90% of voicecoil cooling is via convective heat transfer we get absolutely superior power handling and significantly lower power compression with this type of design.   No chuffing or noise problems at all, even during full free-air excursion this design is very very quiet.

   

I like this basket design.   It comes with the foam backing so you don't have to fiddle with methods of sealing the cabinet.   Notice the screw holes for mounting are off-set enough that the gasket gives a nice 360 degree seal without having to monkey around with gasket material.   The venting around the perimeter is great with a nice open design for dipole use.  The front of the basket has a nice profile that looks really slick.   About the only basket design I like better (and only in some ways) is the Seas cast baskets.   



Here it is next to the Parts Express RS-180.   The RS-180 looks a lot bigger and it is... the motor and shielding cup make it look like a larger driver.   The only thing larger though is the rear.   The cone diameter is the same. We smoke the RS-180 in every measureable parameter (FR, distortion measurements, usable output, power compression/handling, etc, etc...).   Of course we should, our cost on the EX-6.5 in volume is more expensive than the retail price of the RS-180!   Performance wise we should offer almost twice the usable output of the RS-180 down low so the value proposition falls a little better into balance if you analyze the entire solution.   

I know a lot of people are in love with the RS-180 due to the price/performance.   If it didn't have the poor FR issues of the aluminum cone I'd agree. The poorly behaved cone causes you to have to use steep filters down low.  This translates to an expensive crossover & tweeter needed.  The crossover components alone can double the price of the solution and it no longer looks like such a great value when you factor in the total system cost.   The EX-6.5 in contrast, works wonderfully with a 2nd order electrical solution crossed over at a more reasonable 2.5Khz.   All of my designs with the RS-180 have been forced to either use a notch filter or crossover steep down around 1.5K.



Here is the EX-6.5 next to the Extremis.   Size wise these look like a better match.   The T/S parameters of the EX-6.5 are much closer to the RS-180 (which was our target) with a more traditional 88-89db sensitivity.    Notice we use the gold plated push terminals which add a little cost but make for easy connection chores.   The EX-6.5 also has about 5/16" less mounting depth.   This allows it to fit in a 2x4 stud space (hint hint... in-wall designs).   The small neo magnet takes up minimal cabinet volume, doesn't restrict the rear-wave for dipole applications (another hint hint) and is usable next to any CRT.



Here is a cone picture.   Take this one with a grain of salt, the production unit uses a different cone/surround.   The phase plug is the same.  The surround in the production unit goes all the way out to the perimeter of the basket hiding the glue joint.   This picture doesn't show it well but the basket looks VERY nice flush mounted in a cabinet.  The slight bevel on the face gives it a little extra "coolness" factor. 

Overall I'm stoked!   Awaiting a late April delivery schedule for my first production run.   Expect the X-Generation of Exodus loudspeaker kits to follow shortly thereafter.


« Last Edit: 12 Mar 2007, 09:05 pm by Kevin Haskins »

Bryce

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #1 on: 14 Mar 2007, 03:31 am »
Does it still have the copper sleeve?  Just curious

RAW

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #2 on: 14 Mar 2007, 04:21 am »
Well done Kevin.
Control you destiny :thumb:

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #3 on: 14 Mar 2007, 04:35 am »
Does it still have the copper sleeve?  Just curious

No we don't... we use an aluminum ring on the perimeter rather than one over the pole.  It lowers inductance around the center 15mm of excursion.  

Inductance and the general perception people have concerning shorting rings is often incorrect.   You often hear people say that the shorting ring decreases THD.   It CAN reduce distortion under some circumstances.   It has become a "check list item" though that is often used just for marketing.   There are very few designers that actually understand how to design good shorting rings.   The physics involved are not trivial.  

For the EX-6.5 we where mainly concerned with inductive effects within its bandwidth of use.  We didn't concern ourselves with lowering inductance outside of the bandwidth of the driver.   When your looking at inductance you have to have a three axis graph to see the entire situation.   It varies with VC position and frequency.   Klippel measurements show a statistical graph based upon VC position forward & rearward.   Ideally, we should look at it over the range of stroke AND frequency.  In that way you can better see the entire picture.

Another thing I learned from Dan is that a slight peak in the inductance curve can be good in some situations.   With hard transients you get eddy currents set-up in the motor.   These eddy currents are similiar to back-emf that you see in the VC except they are in the motor (and they don't induce a current, just change the field strength).   A cone tends to center itself at areas of higher inductance and if you have a dip centered on the usable stroke of the motor your cone can have a hard time finding its way back to center (for example with a flat Le curve).  The suspension cms helps but you have to look at the BL of the driver in relation to the Cms to see if your getting yourself into trouble in situations where your inductance at center is TOO low in relation to the BL/Cms ratio (the motor can overpower the cms curve in returning the cone to center).

Moral of the story.  If you don't understand what your doing just plopping shorting rings into the design can cause more harm than good and more is not always better!  :o

Fun stuff... I'm looking forward to learning more.  
« Last Edit: 14 Mar 2007, 04:52 am by Kevin Haskins »

Bryce

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #4 on: 14 Mar 2007, 05:31 pm »
Sounds like a well designed driver.  Can't wait to hear a pair.

klh

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #5 on: 14 Mar 2007, 06:26 pm »
Very impressive... and by your 1st post and a little extrapolation I presume you may use these with the BG Neo 3 PDR in a OB speaker.

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #6 on: 15 Mar 2007, 01:11 am »
Very impressive... and by your 1st post and a little extrapolation I presume you may use these with the BG Neo 3 PDR in a OB speaker.

Probably the case.   Dan & I where talking about updating the DDR with the new EX-6.5 and a few other little tricks.   The Neo3 works nice in that application because all you need to do is pry off the rear cup.   With the right network it works great down to where Dan has it crossed over for the DDR.  The cost and performance are both right.    I don't see any reason to use another part.   

klh

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #7 on: 15 Mar 2007, 07:26 pm »
Kevin... for the X-Generation of Exodus... do you plan on re-releasing your current Exodus speakers with the new driver, or are you purely doing new stuff? Beside the WMTM OB speaker you've discussed and the in wall you've hinted at, what else do you have in mind?

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #8 on: 15 Mar 2007, 08:37 pm »
Probably they will be mostly fresh designs but there will still be monitor, tower and center channel designs.    They will just use updated drivers and a couple other new twist that I'm not ready to talk about yet.   :green:



AK

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #9 on: 15 Mar 2007, 09:03 pm »
very nice looking drivers. do you already have approximate pricing info?
are they going to be much more expensive than current extremis drivers?

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #10 on: 15 Mar 2007, 09:35 pm »
very nice looking drivers. do you already have approximate pricing info?
are they going to be much more expensive than current extremis drivers?

The driver is more expensive to make than the Extremis but we don't plan to sell them as raw drivers.   They are only going to be sold within our loudspeaker kits.   


klh

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #11 on: 16 Mar 2007, 12:35 am »
You're such a tease. Some sort of open baffle LCR would be pretty cool.

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #12 on: 16 Mar 2007, 01:37 am »
You're such a tease. Some sort of open baffle LCR would be pretty cool.

Ha!    I'll give you a little morsel or so to chew on.   :)

The biggest problem with center channels is that stupid idea of laying an MTMs on their side.   I almost refuse to design one because it just gets under my skin to see the ugly response problems off-axis.   So... the only right way is a three-way which requires a taller baffle.   Unless we design a small midrange driver (which may happen, but not within the next 3 months) you end up with a 12" or taller center channel (using the EX-6.5 & a 4" faceplate tweeter) which doesn't meet with the typical spouse approval.   I'll probably eat crow and design an MTM with as low a crossover as I can get away with.

A dipole center is a real challange also.   Not to design the loudspeaker but placement is a problem.   To work the way they are designed, dipoles should have an obstruction free rear.    I don't see too many HT setups where that is a realistic setup.   Most users want their center as close to the screen as possible.   Just opposite what you would want with a dipole.   All we need is a transparent loudspeaker that can sit about 4-5ft in front of the screen.   Then I could make a good center channel dipole.   :scratch:

Expect to see some interesting active designs that are really unique.   My main area of focus is on doing what we can about the problems with the room-loudspeaker interface.   The proverbial largest issue with playback in small room acoustical environments. 

   



 

Voodoo Rufus

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #13 on: 16 Mar 2007, 05:09 pm »
Looks good and beefy, Kevin.

Are you planning 2-way or 3-way tower designs? Possibly continuing the use of the WR125 driver with these, or is it unnecessary?

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #14 on: 16 Mar 2007, 05:38 pm »
Looks good and beefy, Kevin.

Are you planning 2-way or 3-way tower designs? Possibly continuing the use of the WR125 driver with these, or is it unnecessary?

There will be a 2-way monitor & center channel.    The tower is going to be a 3-way with the EX-6.5 as the midrange and perhaps two as bass units.     The only reason to use the WR as a midrange would be cost (it is cheaper) and dispersion.   You could cross it over higher.    The EX-6.5 should actually be lower distortion over that range due to a motor with more linearity, less suspension variation over excursion, and higher VC mass/surface area for heat dissipation.    I've not done a comparative distortion measurement but I think I could safely say that the EX-6.5 will have an advantage due to all the fundamental factors.   

Linkwitz has done some distortion measurements comparing small midranges and larger drivers (6.5", 7" units) and came up with that general trend.       He didn't tie the reason back to the fundamental driver properties, but made comments that there was no reason to use smaller drivers in place of the larger ones in midrange use.   He was working with a open baffle dipole where you can play a driver up higher before it starts to narrow.    The limit of a 6.5" driver is about 2.5K-3K before the dispersion pattern starts to narrow in a monopole application.

There are subjective reasons also.  There are just sometimes when a driver seems to sound better than another due to voodoo or magic.   Its more likely that the differences are perfectly explainable (I'm joking about magic).  The different distortion spectrum is probably the biggest determining factor.    I like the subjective taste of the EX-6.5 as much as I do the WR-125 (maybe more, I've not done enough comparisons) so there isn't a seat of the pants reason to choose one over the other.

The final reason is sensitivity.   The WR has a lowish 85-86db sensitivity.   The EX-6.5 is 88-89db so I'd be burning a good 3db of overall system sensitivity if I went with the WR-125.    The more sensitive the design the less power needed to drive it.   The less power needed the less power compression and the more likely your amp is to enjoy driving it.   aa
« Last Edit: 16 Mar 2007, 06:24 pm by Kevin Haskins »

klh

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #15 on: 17 Mar 2007, 01:21 am »
Interesting. My HT has a front projector and the bottome of the screen is about 30" above the floor. Unfortunately the front of the speakers can be no more than 30" from the front wall. I would imagine an MT (EX-6.5 and BG Neo 3 PDR??) would work best given your distaste for horizontal MTMs. A WWMT could also work but it may be too tall. Mabye a [EX-6.5|BG Neo 8 PDR|EX-6.5] MTM would work. That would definitely allow a lower crossover point. 

Kevin Haskins

Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #16 on: 17 Mar 2007, 03:51 am »
I would imagine an MT (EX-6.5 and BG Neo 3 PDR??) would work best given your distaste for horizontal MTMs. A WWMT could also work but it may be too tall. Mabye a [EX-6.5|BG Neo 8 PDR|EX-6.5] MTM would work. That would definitely allow a lower crossover point. 

I have one of the Neo 8s to try that approach and it was exactly my thoughts.   The lower you can cross it the better. 

I'm not sure I'm going to use the Neo3 for the entire lineup at this point.   For the dipole... yes.   For the rest I'm considering another part that has some attractive features (incredible power response).     

klh

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Re: EX-6.5 Prototype pics
« Reply #17 on: 17 Mar 2007, 07:32 pm »
Can't wait :D