[BikeWNC]

Hi jdodmead,

It's not really the switch that has me worried at this point. What has me worried is that I hear people saying that these amplifiers have to be turned on for days on end before they sound good but I won't ever be leaving mine on for more than 10 or so hours at the most. A typical week day for me would have the amp on for only about 4 or 5 hours. If the amp sounds terrible for several days after being powered off (as many in this thread have said), I'm in big trouble since my amp will be powered off at the end of every day. I have owned a lot of amps in my day, both tube and SS and I have never had one that didn't sound 95% of it's best within about 15 minutes of powering it on. I wasn't prepared for what I read here about the days of warm up required. Hence, my worry if I have made a poor choice for my application.

So do you throw the master breaker everytime you leave the house?  I've had my amps on 24/7.  I turn them off if going away for more than a day or so.  I can tell you there is a difference in the sound after being powered off and it seems to take some time to get back to normal. 

I can understand being worried after the experience you had.  But there are many electical devices in every house that are always plugged in or just a switch away from being on.  Do you worry about the coffee pot, wireless phone, answering machine, computer, hvac, tv, microwave oven, etc?  Do these get unplugged too?  I'm not being critical here, just wondering what you do.  I havent heard of anyone having a problem, fire related, with Odyssey amps.

Andy

[jdodmead]

I understand your concern and am only sorry that I can't confirm whether or not what we are hearing is true. Most equipment needs to warm up, it's just a matter of how much for each one.
I bought the Extremes based on my reseaerch here, Audiogon and Audio Asylum.  There was so much postive said about these I thought I would give them a try.  leaving them on 24/7 is not an issue for me, I prefer to keep them on and it is really nice that they don't generate any heat. I will be turning them off if I will be going out of town, but that's about the only time I would. Tube amps would be a different story or any other unit that generates a lot of heat.

[BobC]

I also only turn mine off when leaving for vacation or during a thunderstorm.  I believe they sound a little better warmed up and I don't think it takes all that long....maybe an hour to two    Not sure because I rarely turn them off.  And I haven't ever noticed a really dramatic sound difference between "turned on for an hour" and "turned on for a day".

That said. I recently upgraded my Mono Extreme's to SE and I'm still breaking them in.

It sounds like your experience is different, but it's been my experience that there is a larger risk of an electrical fire in the wall outlets / house wiring / fixtures.  At the end of the day you need to do what makes you feel safe.

My $0.02

[kgl936]

HI BikeWNC,

No offense taken by your questions. It does sound silly but my wife is far more paranoid than I am so things like toaster and other small appliances get plugged in for use only then unplugged. Obviously, clocks, HVAC and other major appliances are left as is or they won't work at all  . Maybe I'm even scapegoating the fire situation here but I have a mental thing about leaving the hifi on all the time that I just can't get past. I would even go so far as to say that a component that must be left on at all times to perform properly isn't properly designed. I think my first post wasn't very well worded so there's a lot of room to read into that I said. I think what I am getting at is I wonder if the difference in the sound of a Khartago amplifier which is turned on then off each time it's used is going to sound considerably worse than one that is left on at all times.

For example, I used to have a Threshold T400 amplifier that the dealer told me would sound better if it was left on continuously. This amplifier was biased heavily into class A and ran HOT! Three or four hour listening sessions would raise the temperature of the room by almost 10 degrees! If I left it on continuously the room would have been uninhabitable and it would certainly have made quite an impact on my electric bill too. So, I never left it on but I also found that it sounded dry for the first 15 minutes or so then sounded great after that. I never felt that I was missing performance by not leaving it on continuously. I was hoping that the Khartago would be the same way. If it sounds bad for days before warming up, as has been implied by some posters here, I was worried that I might be in some trouble.

I talked with Klaus for an hour before ordering my Khartago and I told him exactly how I was going to use it and he didn't mention any long "warm-up" period for the amp to sound good. This is why I am so surprised to hear the things I have read in this thread. I asked my admittedly rather vague question to see if other readers of this forum experienced the prolonged warm up period and if leaving the amp on continuously was the only way to get it to sound the way it was designed to.

Sure, I have the 30 day trial period to find out for myself and I intend to use that time to do just that.

[kgl936]

Hi BobC

Thanks for the reply. I probably came off way too dramatic with the fire thing but it did happen and it has made me a lot more aware of everything electrical in the house. I agree that wiring is a more likely place for a fire to start than an amplifier. FWIW, the house was completely rewired from the panel afterwards so everything in the walls is new now  . As for turning the amp off when not in use, I'm kind of hung up on that because I feel that I shouldn't have to leave any stereo component on the time for it to work properly. I feel the same way about this as some here on AC feel that they shouldn't ever have to use anything more than zip cord for speaker wire. Maybe I'm crazy but it's how I feel. Perhaps I'm just an old curmudgeon anymore? 

-Kevin-

[BobC]

That's cool.  What ever works for you.

As I stated above, I've only noticed a small improvement warmed up vs cold.  And my ears have never distinguished between warmed up 1 hour and warmed up 1 day.  So to me (and my ears) it's a non-issue.  I leave mine on because I know there is a small improvement warmed up and don't want to wait....call it peace of mind.  Also I'm lazy and don't want to reach behind and switch off every time.  Also, every time you switch off and back on (too quickly) you're recharging the caps, risking a blown fuse (minor issue).  Plus I like the look of the logo glowing in my rack all the time. Last, I need to keep things simple for my wife or other users.

I think you'll be happy.  And if not, you can return them.
Enjoy!   

[TomS]

As I stated above, I've only noticed a small improvement warmed up vs cold.  And my ears have never distinguished between warmed up 1 hour and warmed up 1 day.  So to me (and my ears) it's a non-issue.  I leave mine on because I know there is a small improvement warmed up and don't want to wait....call it peace of mind.

I couldn't agree more with this notion.  I suspect the difference between one hour warmup and constant on is very marginal if any.  The amps probably stabilize very quickly (< 1hr) from a thermal standpoint and they also don't run hot at all like a Class A amp does.  Longer term differences might even be attributed to other factors like incoming power (don't go there), time of day, etc.  Who knows?  Not saying there aren't any, but it may not be the amps either.  On the other hand, I would definitely still heed the recommendation to run them in for 400-600 hours.  After that, turn them on an hour or so before serious listening and you should be fine.  In my situation, I also just leave them as BobC said for "peace of mind" that they sound their best always.

Tom

[kgl936]

TomS -- Thanks! With my current system, I turn it on when I get home from work and let it play as background music while I take care of my daily chores then I'll settle down to listen later in the evening. If it only takes about an hour to get the amp most of the way there, I'm fine, this will work for me.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I got a bit worried hearing about days of warmup and it sounding bad in the mean time  .

-Kevin-

[TomS]

Not to burst your bubble too much, but while my Extremes are a year old, I've only these particular amps a week or so.  Nonetheless, I turned them on tonight at about 5:30 and at the moment about 8:30 they sound terrific, to me at least.  I think you can rest easy on this one.  My BEL amps work about the same way.  Long term power up may improve them slightly but not much.  Enjoy the Khartago - you'll love it!

[AlexG]

BobC,

That's cool.  What ever works for you.

I like your new avatar...

Regards,

Alex

[bpape]

IMO, pretty much any amp takes at least an hour to open up and sound it's best.  I leave mine on all the time. 

Now, when they're new and the caps need to form, then the longer you can let them on and get the caps good and cooking the faster they'll break in.  The Odyssey's, even according to Klaus, will take a few hundred hours to get good and broken it.  If it were me, I'd leave them on all the time on the weekends at least to get them broken in ASAP and form the caps quicker.

Bryan

[jdodmead]

I had an eye(ear) opening experience with the Stratos last night. I no longer am wondering if I made the right move in purchasing these. I definitely made the right move, I don't know exactly what I was looking for, probably a magical experience and when I didn't get it I was disappointed. It isn't magical, at least not yet, but my feet kept moving, which is  really what it's all about. These are very musical amps and I think I have just begun appreciating how good they  are. I love the fact that there is no heat being generated, I think my Nuforce amps actually got hotter.
regards
Jeff

[jdodmead]

Another question. Anyone ever take off the front plate and have it anodized? I don't want to send these brute back to Odyssey to get a different colored face plate. I have silver and would much prefer black, is it easy to get the faceplates off?
Thanks
Jeff

[TomS]

I can't imagine "re-anodizing" to a different color.  Seems like it would be easier just to order one from Klaus and replace it yourself.

[klaus@odyssey]

Every single component,  no matter what,  benefits from break-in.

Every single active component,  no matter what,  benefits from either leaving it on all the time,  or having it warmed up sufficiently.

Every single person who disagrees with that is certainly welcome to his opinion,  but benefits from a real life example of the above,  no matter what.

Every single person who can not hear that difference,  no matter what,  should maybe look either to a different hobby,  or stop obsessing about it.

Every single customer of mine,  no matter what amplifier,  had a "aha" experience with break-in and warm up.

Now,  of course it is best to leave any component on 24/7 unless the manufacturer tells you different.
I am also aware that there are a lot of people who don't feel comfortable with it,  and prefer to turn the system on and off.  No argument here.

It is hard to put exact #'s  and scales of improvements of the differences.  Each system is organic,  and each listener has different habits,  abilities,  and also seriousness about this hobby.
However,  as for our amps,  I would say that if you do casual listening,  who cares ?  For serious listening,  expect at least an hour before the amp starts opening up again.  Discharge time is usually 30 minutes +.
For total recovery of the last ounce of performance,  you're looking at a couple of days.

So,  having this out of the way,  the question remains as to why there is such a big difference (to many) between different amps and their obvious different warm up times and severity of improvements.  Well,  you can spin it any way you want to.  Up to you.

As for me,  I would say that after you have broken in the amp (that , however,  is mandatory to achieve best sound) and even stone cold,  the Khartago and the Stratos is one hell of a piece,  that only gets better by the minute.

Have fun,

Klaus

[dangerbird]

The amps have on/off switches ?   aa aa aa

[kgl936]

Thanks Klaus! That's pretty much in line with my experience with past equipment. Still looking forward to receiving my new Khartago!

-Kevin-

[rosconey]

Another question. Anyone ever take off the front plate and have it anodized? I don't want to send these brute back to Odyssey to get a different colored face plate. I have silver and would much prefer black, is it easy to get the faceplates off?
Thanks
Jeff

 a can of spray paint will do wonders-

[Spirit]

Every single component,  no matter what,  benefits from break-in.

Not according to some other amp manufaturers who sell their wares on the circle.  I feel very sorry for any audio designer who builds high end products and cannot hear the improvements that develop after break in.

Every single active component,  no matter what,  benefits from either leaving it on all the time,  or having it warmed up sufficiently.

Let's be clear, my amps are on all the time and are never "warm" to the touch. They are cool and cool!!!

Every single person who disagrees with that is certainly welcome to his opinion,  but benefits from a real life example of the above,  no matter what.

I turned my amps to "off" when I was away on holidays af ew months ago and they sounded awful when I turned them on.  I came back a few hours later and the difference in sound was incredible.

Every single person who can not hear that difference,  no matter what,  should maybe look either to a different hobby,  or stop obsessing about it.

Well said

Every single customer of mine,  no matter what amplifier,  had a "aha" experience with break-in and warm up.

My experience was more like: Oh my G-D!!!!

Now,  of course it is best to leave any component on 24/7 unless the manufacturer tells you different.

Klaus

[DMi]

Yep. Dead right. You need the monos turned on all the time. There is a huge amount of capacitance in the power supply that takes some time to condition fully. Once it is charged... stand back because the bass slam will be there. It's almost like the thing has to polarize or something the longer the things run the sweeter they get.

Mine are still breaking in. If I turn them off to move them I need to let them sit powered back up overnight before things settle down. My old Stratos stereo plus was plugged in and turned on for nearly four years straight. Turning it off after it was fully broken in was painful as it took hours before things settled in again.

The posts are wired in parallel internally, they don't need a jumper. You don't need to do anything with them unless you want to bi-wire your speakers.

Doug

I agree completely.  I had mine turned off for a few weeks while I was away.  I turned them on and starting listening right away and I broke into a cold sweat.  They sounded awful.  After letting them settle in for a few hours, WOW - what a revelation!

Curious.  How long have you had that you say that they are still breaking in.
 
Can you explain what you mean regarding the biwire situation with the Monos

My feeling is from having the original Stratos that they take at least a month or so of break in before they really sound near perfect. I suspect that is near 100 hours or so of my use. The thing is Stratos amps seem to get better until they hit somewhere in the area of 300+ hours of operation. At that point any additional improvement is so minor it could be deemed to be no longer a physical change. It might be my imagination at that point. My pair of SE's is at about the month point right now they sound so nice now it's hard to think they will likely get better but my experience with other Odyssey products tells me that they will.

I know one of Klaus's options is to install a second set of posts on the monos. Internally those are wired to the same connection on the board or joined inside the chassis. The thinking with speakers that can be bi-wired is that you can gain a bit of improvement in the highs by sending the return path of the lows (which do generate some interference on the wire) via a different cable. I do notice a difference myself so I have mine bi-wired but I don't have the extra posts on the amps so I have them connected at the same WBT's with one pair of wires for the highs and one for the lows in my cables. The speakers have jumpers so that I can split the crossover and connect one pair to the highs and one to the lows on that end. Not as fancy as an active crossover but still tweaks it up a bit in smoothness for the high end. Given the current these things can move it would be interesting to look at the magnetic field generated around the speaker wires in operation.

Doug