[rollo]

how do we really know if the component in question is neutral.What is our reference point?If we were not at the recording session or editing how do we establish the neutral description?
rollo

[robert1325]

When it sounds boring 

[rollo]

Very funny Rob and I agree but seriously How can something be classified as neutral
 rollo

[robert1325]

In my opinion you can't say a component is entirely neutral,   but you can say it sounds more or less neutral... You take your previous components as reference point and from there you compare different recordings and say things like("oh  that sax sounds very warm ,  and the bass is awfully fuzzy - could I live with this?")     

[Mike Dzurko]

I think it is primarily a matter of gaining as much experience as possible listening to as much live music in as many venues as possible.

[aerius]

You don't.  Unless you have the power to look at the grooves on an LP and know exactly what it sounds like, and then compare it to the sound of the gear or something like that.

Since we can't do that, we have to settle for less.  In my case I designate an arbitrary system as "neutral" and compare everything else to that.

[mfsoa]

Maybe it's a running average of the music that's played through it. I'm sure we all have cuts that we say "Boring, no life, no air" and on the same system "Wow, Pop, Pizazz, etc". At least this is what I think a neutral component should achieve given a wide range of source material. But then it comes down to what aerius said, we really don't know what's on those discs, do we?

Is neutral the point where half our music is in each camp? (Bisects the bell curve if you will)

[rollo]

Here we go guys

    Live music is my reference,but the room can change the sound so neutral is?
 If you classify your system as neutral and its not its good for equip evaluation but thats it
Maybe they mean when it sounds right but that is subjective as well.
I.m not trying to diaggee to disagree but trying to establish what the reviewers mean and is it VALID
rollo

[woodsyi]

I try to use live performances of acoustic music including voices as a reference for neutrality.  I tune all my set up really to replay Opera as real as possible.  It works for me. 

[macrojack]

It's neutral if it's from Switzerland.

[miklorsmith]

Yes, but DarTzeel costs $20,000 a pop. 

[macrojack]

Yeah, Mike, and Goldmund and FM Acoustics and Nagra. This neutral stuff is pricey.

[jrebman]

And how about Vacuum State?  Not horribly expensive, but then again, don't know how neutral either.  Anagram?

-- Jim

Yeah, Mike, and Goldmund and FM Acoustics and Nagra. This neutral stuff is pricey.

[rollo]

Yes, but DarTzeel costs $20,000 a pop. 

   When I auditioned my Pipedreams,the amp was the DarTzeel.This S/S unit was colored towards the warm side,a good match for the Pipes.The presentation was breathtaking.This amp is not neutral by any means.If it wasn't $20,000 I would have purchased it on the spot.
    Now using 16W 211 SET colored as can be,but I love the synergy with the speakers.
     Goldmund has a house sound similar to Naim.Bold, cool and detailed.
    Back to neutral sound,I think the only way we can determine if a particular unit is neutral is when it is inserted in our own systems.Then if the presentation is altered in any way we will know.
    I havn't heard all the equipment from Switz. to comment,its not fair to do so without first hand experience.Their cheese is not neutral.
rollo