RM40s and amps

KeithR · « **on:** 10 Jul 2003, 09:25 pm »

I have read a lot of how VMPS love tubes, yet owners seem to get stuck with ss for amps.

Anyone try a BAT VK75SE? It has more gusto than most ss amps I have heard, and woudl seem a good complement. Several have popped up at very attractive prices, so I am surprised no one has tried one.

I don't own VMPS, but am just curious....

Tyson · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 09:28 pm »

The 626R's love tubes and sound GREAT w/a good tube amp (I wouldn't ge below 50 watts though, as they still like power). The 40's on the other hand LOVE power. The more power and current you throw at them, the better, in my experience. I think the 500 watts I've got going to them is "sufficient", but they sound even more dynamic and punchy in the mid bass w/the 800-1000 watts that the JC-1's or the Spectron Musician II are able to provide.

John Casler · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jul 2003, 11:16 pm »

Can't tell you what the Spectron Musician II sounds like with the RM40s but seems I have heard some one else also say the same thing Tyson says.

As far as the BAT. Again this is not first hand but a local RM40 owner just sold his recently purchased BAT (VK-75SE) amp and picked up a used Plinius (I tried to tell him I was an AMPzilla and Spectron dealer, but I was too late)

His comment were that the Bass was weak, but the detail was great.

I think I am moving toward Tyson with "tubes" possibly being in the front end (CDP or Pre) and going for max power (min 200wpc) for the RM40s.

Recently inserted a "BottleHead" Pre in my system and it was OK, but not a great improvement over my little Bryston SS Preamp.

KeithR · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 01:20 am »

That's interesting, as the BAT is known for its slam and bass, and has no problems driving Thiels, Wilsons etc. I guess room size is also a big factor. I once demo'd the BAT on Wilson W/P6s back in nyc (tough impedance spikes make it a bear), and the BAT had better bass slam than the ML336 it was then connected to.

Maybe 150SEs are the only way to go (which is cost prohibitive at that point for most).

BTW, isn't there issues with 500+ watts on a normal circuit? I mean, only so many amps of current can come out of regular wall outlets. Perhaps they have dedicated 20 or 30 amp lines?

I also presume you can get big VTL monos to run them, although they have tons of tubes and are wicked hot...Manley Neo Classics would be another option in the 7-8k amp range. I believe they are 250watts a side, but do look really cool

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 06:33 pm »

I think Keith knows my thoughts on this as I have had a little of both. My thought would be that biamping a good med powered tube amp up top and a pro-audio amp or SS amp on bottom would be a better alternative.

The heat production and energy consumption of my Cary V12 were too intolerable in my view. With Keith's speakers the V12 ran relatively cool, not so with the RM40's. I think biamping would be the middle ground.

However, I still prefer what I view as more neutrality of the Spectron to having all my music colored the same way.

Kishore · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 07:11 pm »

I believe Kora Cosmos have been a good tubey amp for RM40s.., and so has the Berning ZH270.

Yeah I noticed the crazy deals on Audiogon-Wadia 861 for $4K, BAT at 50% off..etc-great time for buyers to spend $$.

Cheers,
Kishore

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 08:05 pm »

i haven't heard the rm40's, but i'd hazard a guess that my mesa baron would drive 'em quite nicely! the baron is cool, in that it can be run full pentode, at 150wpc, or 2/3 pentode-1/3 triode, at ~110w, or 1/3 pentode-2/3 triode at ~80w, or full triode at ~60w. also, negative feedback can be set at 0, -2db, -4db, or -8db. i have a feeling i will be keeping this beast for a while. it replaced a pair of fine-sounding electrocompaniet aw60ftt's, and offered a nicer soundstage depth, w/no loss of detail, resolution, or slam whatsoever.

fwiw, both the ec's, and the baron were/are crossed over to monitors w/a marchand x-over at 60hz, so neither set-up has seen the low bass frequencies. many baron users have stated that, for a tube amp, the baron excels at the low end. all i know is that it goes down to 60hz yust fine...

doug s.

KeithR · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 11:14 pm »

JoshK,

I don't think the heat wasn't because of the speakers, but because your amp was on the bottom of your shelf (with lots of equipment above it, preventing ventilation), and your old apartment was a bit more confined space-wise.

My V12i definitely heat up my room a few degrees, but allowing it to breathe on top probably helped a bunch in heat dissipation.

I could be remembering wrong though...been a long time since we discussed it!

BTW, i think i am upgrading my Wadia 861 to SE status

KeithR

ps. that Wadia for 4k is not as great a bargain--i think it has some nicks hence the 8/10 condition. True market value is around 4800 probably, still not too shabby for any product these days. I do agree, that it is a buyers market!

KeithR · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Jul 2003, 11:17 pm »

btw, has anyone tried the Hurricanes with the RM40s? Seems like an ideal match...

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Jul 2003, 02:09 am »

Keith,

Many times I put the V12 in the middle of the room off the rack and the results were the same, it wasn't the placement on the rack.

shokunin · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 09:17 am »

I'm using a Pass Labs X-250 on my Rm40's and Theta HT processor as my preamp, all SS. I have a bottlehead tube pre, but it's currently sitting in box on the floor in the corner. As others have mentioned the RM40's love power and current, others have mentioned using largish gauge speaker wire with the RM40's as well. If anything, I'd love to hear the RM40's on Ampzilla's, that's one combo I have yet to hear.

Hoots · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 03:09 pm »

Would my low priced vintage electronics be a decent fit with a speaker like the RM40's? It's one thing for me to buy the speakers but dropping thousands more on big name electronics might be too much.

I like the idea of bi-amping and filtering lows to high wattage SS and highs to moderate power tubes.

I have an antique 1962 Scott 355 tube pre/tuner with Dynaco ST-70 and Carver C500.

Tyson · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jul 2003, 04:13 pm »

The 40's like power, so the carver would be fine. The ribbons like tubes, so you're pre should be fine too.

John Casler · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Jul 2003, 02:02 am »

Quote from: shokunin

If anything, I'd love to hear the RM40's on Ampzilla's, that's one combo I have yet to hear.

Hi Shokunin,

I have heard this combo and todate have not heard anything better.

Maybe when your panels are ready you should fly up to pick them up and listen to big B's AMPZilla/RM40 combo.

With a big Jadis tube pre, and an LEDE room it is awsome. Bass to kill for.

meilankev · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Jul 2003, 08:02 pm »

Keith,

I run RM40s (w/TRT caps) full-range with KORA Cosmos tube monoblocks (100W Triode - pure Class A). Keeping in mind my listening room is pretty small (16'W x 15'D x 8'H), my RM40s are definitely not in need of additional wattage/current.

I have had extended time with 3 solid state amps in the past year:
> Audire Audio 100W pure Class A amp
> Classe' Audio 300W amp
> McIntosh 225W amp

Again, compared with these amps, my KORA/RM40 combination is not lacking for bass response, attack, or dynamic range. Depending on the size of your listening area, I'm sure the BATs could do wonderfully. Note of the three SS amps above, the Audire Audio amp (the least powerful) sounded best to me in my room.

I always see people stating that tubes are desirable somewhere in the signal path with the RM40s, but just not with the power amps. Well, not all tube power amps are created equally. Personally I feel they simply perform with high quality electronics/sources - regardless of the technology.

I would guess that if "all things were equal, more power/current is better". However, ALL THINGS ARE NEVER EQUAL. While a wonderfully-designed SS amp will no doubt sound better than a merely "good" tube amp, the inverse is equally true.

Despite the fact that Brian uses SS amps in his exhibitions, from my experience, the fewer SS components (preamp/monoblocks) in the path, the better the resultant sound. We tried all combinations (as my preamp is also tubed).

Let's not forget it was Brian himself who stated that the best sound he ever heard from "stock RM40s" was through a pair of the KORAs. And I'm assuming he's never heard the KORAs drive the RM40s with upgraded caps.

Good luck to you,
Kevin