[mark]

Is it possible to achieve compelling 2 channel sound at low volumns? What speaker types are good for  classical music at moderate to low levels in small room ( 14' x 20'). Below $2k used or new. Thanks.

[RoadTripper]

Low volumes don't compel me. But it sort of depends on what you mean by compelling and what you mean by classical. If you mean classical literally, as in Haydn or Mozart, low volumes may be OK for some. If by classical you mean Mahler or a Strauss opera, then you're going to need some serious volume to create the suspension of disbelief that we look for.

There are plenty of $2k speaker choices. If you have that kind of cash on hand for speakers, you are going to like what you get, no question, if you hang out around here a bit and do some reading. And there are several "what should I buy" speaker threads too. All you need to read is here.

[Agrippa]

For low levels with dynamics intact, you want speakers with high sensitivity (say 88db or above) and high impedance (minimum 6 Ohm or more).  Two-way is better than 3 way as a general rule, due to simpler crossovers and small floorstanders are better than bookshelves (the former are generally a more benign load for the amp to drive).  Couple those with any reasonably powered amp and you should do well.

And yes, it is possible to achieve great sound at low levels, but most modern systems won't manage it.  Careful matching and auditioning is pretty much a must.  Sadly I don't really know of anything in your price bracket, but there should really be plenty to choose from.  Actually no - if you can lend ear to the Spendor S6 or S6e I think you may find what you are looking for....

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Yup, Hi-Ef speaker would be good for this.

   Although I've never heard the Horn shoppe. But as a single driver user... 6" Fostex in my case. I think you should check it out. They seem great for the price. They are way below you budget so with that you will have money left to add sub if lower bass is needed. Still money left? Well, spend it on musics than

   And if you have tube amp especially SET than you will be in for a treat!

Take care,
Buddy

[JLM]

Transformer based volume controls (TVC) are supposed to retain the dynamics at low spls.  If your source is rated at 2.0 volt output (typical) or higher it should match up well.  In the past these units (normally passive) were pricey, but check out these:

http://www.diyparadise.com/

http://www.promitheusaudio.com/frontpage.html (BTW there's a big thread going in the two channel circle about these)


And I agree that high efficiency speakers (IMO 95 dB/w/m or higher) would help too.  But with higher efficiency almost always comes colorations and other distortions.  In fact single driver designs dominate this speaker segment as crossovers rob so much power (I'm a single driver fan and they have lots of advantages, but won't get into them here.)  Most solve this problem with tube amps, but the majority of tube amps have very poor damping factors, meaning that the bass is exagerated and uncontrolled.  OTOH most high efficiency designs don't reach into deep bass levels anyway (to the point where most of the high efficiency/tube crowd denys the very existence of deep bass).  Warning:  high efficiency speakers can reveal all the noise in your system and power supplies.

If you're willing to be limited to say 40 Hz output the Cain and Cain Abbys are very nice.  For about half the price Bob Brines uses the same single extended range driver to reach deeper in a transmission line cabinet (again I'm a big fan) versus the Abby that uses a tuned quarter wave pipe in a very tall design.  Brines even sells Lowther based transmission lines that are even more efficient, are larger and go deeper.  Be warned though that Lowthers (the grand daddy of high efficiency extended range drivers) provide a hyper detailed sound (to the point that it distracts me from the other aspects of the music).

Anyway for a $2000 budget you can get both a TVC and speakers from the suggestions above.

If you yearn for still more low level dynamics, look into class A power amps.  They are simplier, but less efficient designs (as they run at full power all the time) and generate lots of heat. 

[Agrippa]

To be honest the efficiency of the speaker is far less crucial than the minimum impedance in my experience.  88dB will do nicely, as long as the speaker has no ugly dips into low impedances and as such does not represent a difficult load for the amp.  Any decently constructed amp will handle 6 Ohm without any problems, but most "regular" speaker designs dip down to 4 Ohm or below at one or more frequencies and it's this which primarily kills the dynamics at low volumes.  High efficiency/sensitivity is a boon, but in my opinion of far less importance.  Also, high efficiency AND high impedance will inevitably limit one to horns, and this price point perhaps even less accomplished horn designs at that.  If it was me I would go for a pair of traditional dynamic speakers with a benign impedance curve instead, not least because their tonality will be more familiar than horns and such.  Unless of course one already likes horns and wants to go that route.

As for Class A amps, I can't say I've ever found them to provide a more dynamic musical performance than any other well-constructed amp.  But by all means, they are as good as anything else.

[Paul_Bui]

..the efficiency of the speaker is far less crucial than the minimum impedance in my experience.  88dB will do nicely, as long as the speaker has no ugly dips into low impedances and as such does not represent a difficult load for the amp.  Any decently constructed amp will handle 6 Ohm without any problems..  High efficiency/sensitivity is a boon, but in my opinion of far less importance. 

Very true in my case.  Bob Brines FTA-2000s (with BSC filters their efficiency drops lower than 88db) driven by a 50wpc Patek SE, source being RWA SB2 (transport) feeding Altmann DAC.  Tonight I played shuffled tracks of Xmas CDs (Celtic Woman Xmas Celebration, Mannheim Steamroller Fresh Air Xmas, GRP Xmas, Xmas with the Pops - they are all non-audiophile CDs) at low volume level, just 2-3 steps up from step 0 (silence).  Yet the music never failed to startle sleeping wifey at many peak passages, and eventually I had to listen to headphones instead.  Almost forgot, volume control performed by SP MPX3 with Goldpoint SA.  Synergy, synergy.

[jt1stcav]

Hey!

   Yup, Hi-Ef speaker would be good for this.

   Although I've never heard the Horn shoppe. But as a single driver user... 6" Fostex in my case. I think you should check it out. They seem great for the price. They are way below you budget so with that you will have money left to add sub if lower bass is needed. Still money left? Well, spend it on musics than

   And if you have tube amp especially SET than you will be in for a treat!

Take care,
Buddy

Ditto...my 8 watt 300B SET stereo amp has been mated with 98.5dB efficient Klipsch Cornwalls, 97dB single-driver Loth-X Amaze monitors, and 91dB, 4 ohm Triangle Zephyr 2-way towers. All sounded excellent at lower levels too, and with dual subs, a full-bodied presentation can still be had and remain realistic.

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Yup, Hi-Ef speaker would be good for this.

   Although I've never heard the Horn shoppe. But as a single driver user... 6" Fostex in my case. I think you should check it out. They seem great for the price. They are way below you budget so with that you will have money left to add sub if lower bass is needed. Still money left? Well, spend it on musics than

   And if you have tube amp especially SET than you will be in for a treat!

Take care,
Buddy

Ditto...my 8 watt 300B SET stereo amp has been mated with 98.5dB efficient Klipsch Cornwalls, 97dB single-driver Loth-X Amaze monitors, and 91dB, 4 ohm Triangle Zephyr 2-way towers. All sounded excellent at lower levels too, and with dual subs, a full-bodied presentation can still be had and remain realistic.

Hey!

    That is an impressive line up speaker you've got there. Are they all in the same room? The Cornwalls would be great for loud rock and the Loth-X likely to have a more of the finesse sound I would've guess.

     I think is the the nature of the hi-ef speaker especially the simpler one that respond well even with lower level listening. My room is consider on small size and I rarely listen to music loud. Most of my listening level usually have peak around 80dB, rarely more than that but never go above 85dB peak

     But I recently found out how much I could push my system when I hosted the recent NY Mini-Rave at my place last month. At upper 90+ dB with peak at slightly over 100dB it was an ears opener for me for sure!

      My SET with KR Audio 842VHD tubes put out about 18wch pumping it into my 94dB ef. (raw driver rated) 6" Fostex and they didn't seem to break a sweat doing upper 90dB at all. Well, it was fun    I could only imagine what my 18wch SET monoblocs could do with your 98.5dB Cornwalls. A block party! 

Take care,
Buddy