More feedback from Sig 70 Owners...

gary · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: Seminarian on 12 Dec 2006, 08:42 pm

...But, after hearing the Sig 70 for a few hours last night, I now realize that my Clari-T was the weak link in my system. The Sig 70 has by far brought the biggest single leap forward. I will hold off for now on the details (too early??) except to say that Vinnie can forget about me sending my Sig 70 back.

This has been my experience moving to the Sig 30, exactly. Not to take anything away from the Clari-T, which is a serious over-acheiver in it's own right, but the Sig amp has brought my system to an entirely different level. It's pure magic, "involving" and "musical" in a way that lets the music draw me into a sort of trancelike state where everything else just kind of drifts away. Sorry if that sounds cheesy but it's the only way I can really describe what I'm hearing, and how it affects me. I'll still try to write up a more indepth review and detail how the amp sounds with my Bastanis speakers, but suffice it to say that my opinions are pretty much in line with what Richard, DMason, and Srajen have already written.

As for burn-in, you can believe it or not but there's no doubt in my mind that when the amp came the highs were harsh and I was hearing distortion. This went away, but only gradually over the course of probably 200+ hours playing at a high volume (mostly with speakers detached and resistors across the binding posts and only brief listening sessions every other day or so).

Gary

miklorsmith · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 04:07 pm »

. . . About 70 hours of low-powered play on mine so far. Last night was the first time I've had them draw me in. For me, I can't have "crinkling paper" on cymbals and still be fully engrossed. At first, I heard this and attributed it to my Toshiba DVD player as source. Well, last night it was gone and got even better once I got the Squeezebox running again.

My brain must be adapting.

gary · « **Reply #22 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 04:28 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 13 Dec 2006, 04:07 pm

. . . About 70 hours of low-powered play on mine so far. Last night was the first time I've had them draw me in. For me, I can't have "crinkling paper" on cymbals and still be fully engrossed. At first, I heard this and attributed it to my Toshiba DVD player as source. Well, last night it was gone and got even better once I got the Squeezebox running again.

My brain must be adapting.

At t=0 my brain thought the amp was unlistenable, at 30 hours it thought it sounded "okay" and at 70 hours it started to like what it was hearing. However it wasn't until I let the amp run for 200 hours with the resistors in place that I could finally listen to electric guitar (a la Jeff Buckley) and not have my ears hurt or listen to female vocals and not feel like the singer was shouting in my face. This is why I'm convinced that there was high frequency distortion that went away... of course maybe my system is still painfully fatiguing, and my brain has convinced me that what I'm hearing actually sounds good in order to justify the decision in investing in this amp, right? Certainly not impossible, but if that's the case the next person who appreciates good audio hears my system will bring me back down to reality when they tell me just how bad it sounds. We'll see if that happens, I suppose not, and I know for certain that if anyone heard my system when I first hooked up the amp they would not have been terribly impressed.

Gary

texendo · « **Reply #23 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 05:18 pm »

Can someone explain the resistor across the binding posts break-in method? Is that one R for each channel? How big should the resistors be (for a Sig 30)? Thank you in advance.

Plink · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 06:00 pm »

everyone seems to say laid back and warm. good for jazz, etc... but does it have slam? does the Sig 30 have slam? good for rock?

gary · « **Reply #25 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 06:04 pm »

The resistor provides a load for the amp so it can run with the volume turned up without you having to hear it. Basically you want about a 5 Ohm resistor, Vinnie suggested some to me from Parts Express I think but I found these at Radioshack which was easier because I didn't have to wait for shipping. They're 10 Ohm, but if you put two in parallel it adds up to a 5 Ohm equivalent resistance (1/10 + 1/10 = 1/5) so you need 4 resistors total. I just twisted the ends together and put them in the binding posts instead of the speaker cable leads (which should obviously be disconnected).

The one downside is that since the amp is battery-powered you can't leave it on 24/7. My routine was to turn it on at night, shut it off when I left for work to recharge, turn it back on when I came home for lunch, turn it off at dinner time to recharge again and then repeat at night.

Gary

RoadTripper · « **Reply #26 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 07:18 pm »

And you had some music on repeat from a CD player?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #27 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: texendo on 13 Dec 2006, 05:18 pm

Can someone explain the resistor across the binding posts break-in method? Is that one R for each channel? How big should the resistors be (for a Sig 30)? Thank you in advance.

Hi Texendo,

You can use a 4-ohm resistor across the + and - terminal of each channel. I'd go with at least a 10-watt resistor. This will do the trick, at a heafty price of $0.39 each

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=016-4

Depending on the output voltage of your source, you can set the volume to somewhere between 12 o'clock and 4pm. Put a CD on repeat. Do not play for longer than 24 hours between full charges. If you start the process when you wake up in the morning, you can charge at night and repeat the process.

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everyone seems to say laid back and warm. good for jazz, etc... but does it have slam? does the Sig 30 have slam? good for rock?

Hi Plink,

While the Signature 30 and 70s don't sound like typical SS gear, they DO have slam and DO rock!

Just keep in mind of their power limitations, so if you really want to rock out, use more efficient speakers.

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At t=0 my brain thought the amp was unlistenable, at 30 hours it thought it sounded "okay" and at 70 hours it started to like what it was hearing.

Hi Gary,

Wow...that is quite a change

. I can't say with confidence that everyone will experience such an extreme change from burn-in, but I DO recommend putting on the burn-in hours like you have done. Thanks for sharing the changes that you have heard with regards to this.

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About 70 hours of low-powered play on mine so far.

...and when you do, make sure you are not playing very softly because that won't get you there. I'm speaking to you, miklorsmith!

If you don't want to hear the music during the process, the resistors are the way to go!

Both Signature amps are revealing of the source, so be careful not to get mixed up with an "etchy" sounding CDP or DVD player.

Also, while I would certainly describe the Signature amps as having a warmer, more SET-like midrange, don't expect them to compensate for (tame down) bright or "shouty" speakers the same way that some tube amps can with all their coloration and "bloominess." This is not to be taken as a dis to tube amps. I just wanted to point out that while the Signature amps DO have some SET-like qualities, they were NOT designed to mimic SETs throughout the spectrum (especially in bass performance, dynamics, control, and naturally a black background).

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Not to take anything away from the Clari-T, which is a serious over-acheiver in it's own right, but the Sig amp has brought my system to an entirely different level. It's pure magic, "involving" and "musical" in a way that lets the music draw me into a sort of trancelike state where everything else just kind of drifts away.

Thanks for your feedback, Gary! Even though this is a Sig 70 thread, what you describe with your 30 totally applies to the Sig 70s. You and many other Clari-T customers who have moved up to either of the Signature amps have stated very similar findings.

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He describes a more laid-back, warmer sound than with his chip amps which are "jumpier" - which would correlate with my take on the Sig 30. The rest will be for him to share when the time comes..

Hi Srajan,

Thanks for posting and I can't wait for Paul's review! I've built many a Gainclone in the past (and heard the AudioZone AMP-1 and "the" Gaincard) and I do agree with what you guys are hearing between the two. Both have their unique sound and that is a good thing. Those who hear a little more slam with the gainclones (vs. Sig 30) will be surprised with the Sig 70, which has the Sig 30 magic in spades, but with more slam

And the monoblock operation takes things to the next level.

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But, after hearing the Sig 70 for a few hours last night, I now realize that my Clari-T was the weak link in my system. The Sig 70 has by far brought the biggest single leap forward. I will hold off for now on the details (too early??) except to say that Vinnie can forget about me sending my Sig 70 back.

Hi Seminarian,

It is unfair to compare the Sig 70s to any Clari-T....the 70s give the Clari-T an ass-whoopin' from top to bottom!

Glad to hear that you are enjoying them, and that your wife is happy with them as well. The WAF is not to be ignored. Besides the sound, the Siggies simple and rather understated appearance, as well as the smaller that typical size of "full-sized" components seems to yield a pretty good WAF score.

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I'll have to concur with the other posts here - these sound great out of the box, and keep improving. right now, i'm mostly "playing" them for burn-in purposes, as opposed to "listening", but every once in a while i can't help but be drawn into the listening room by some musical phrase that just sounds stunning and demands my attention. these are truly the real deal!

Thanks for the updates, Sabes!

Thanks, everyone!

Vinnie

Daygloworange · « **Reply #28 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 08:22 pm »

Vinnie,

Looks like we will be getting to hear the Sig 70's here at our local get together coming soon. Thanks for the lead!!

Mucho looking forward to it!

Cheers

gary · « **Reply #29 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 13 Dec 2006, 07:20 pm

Wow...that is quite a change . I can't say with confidence that everyone will experience such an extreme change from burn-in, but I DO recommend putting on the burn-in hours like you have done. Thanks for sharing the changes that you have heard with regards to this.

Yeah, maybe I'm alone on this but when I first powered the amp up the sound was just really harsh. I'm not sure why, but the highs with my Beyma tweeters were just not tolerable the first day.

Gary

jrebman · « **Reply #30 on:** 13 Dec 2006, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: gary on 13 Dec 2006, 09:05 pm

Yeah, maybe I'm alone on this but when I first powered the amp up the sound was just really harsh. I'm not sure why, but the highs with my Beyma tweeters were just not tolerable the first day.

Gary

No, you're not alone, and I was listening to Revolutions with the B-200 driver (also not broken in, and possibly part of the problem.)

No, I needed 10 hours on them to be able to stay in the same room with them, which is basically the same situation I experienced with my Clari-T. And, just like my Clari-T, there was a very noticeable shift somewhere between 15 and 20 hours, when things calmed down quite a bit. I'm now approaching 50 hours, and I heard another shift in the Clari-T at about this time, and it seems to be coming again with the 70s. I usually have it cranked up fairly good, but neighbors, the need to get other things done, etc. are really preventing me from blasting it for more than a few hours a day. Time to look into some resistors I guess. I actually have a pair of 10 ohm, variable, 50 watters lying around here somewhere so maybe I should dig them up, solder some wires on to them and let the burn-in happen at a quicker pace. My only problem with doing that is that I'm also trying to break in these speakers at the same time, and don't really have a place to do the front-to-front out-of-phase trick. But back to the sound -- there is a whole lot to love about what's going on here and I can tell that these are going to be monsters when it's all said and done. The Clari-T was a completely different beast at 100 hours, and even better yet at 250, so I'm expecting that to hold true for the 70s -- except that they started at a whole different level to begin with.

I'm having fun here, and that's not how I would typically describe a break-in process. Every time I stop to check in, I just seem to reflexively crank it up and sit and listen in utter fascination. I can't say that of any other equipment I have ever owned. Can't wait to get the Revolutions properly mounted so I can truly appreciate what's going on on the lower end, plus how the tonality is smoothing out over the full range. Highs are still quite grainy in places but are definitely improving.

What else can I say but that I'm a happy camper, and getting happier by the day.

Thanks Vinnie, the 70s coupled to the Revolutions is a really special combination and I'm sure I'm going to be floored when everything is settled in.

-- Jim

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #31 on:** 15 Dec 2006, 02:44 pm »

Quote

What else can I say but that I'm a happy camper, and getting happier by the day.

Thanks Vinnie, the 70s coupled to the Revolutions is a really special combination and I'm sure I'm going to be floored when everything is settled in.

Thanks for the updates, Jim! Let those 70s cook

I'm now using the Sig 70s with Maggie MG12s.... AWESOME COMBO HERE!!!

The the Maggies are a 4-ohm load, so the break-in moving along quickly.

All,

I am currently out of stock of enclosures and DACT mono attenuators for the 70s

, but parts are on the way and production will continue in just a couple of weeks!

Cheers!

Vinnie

miklorsmith · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 Dec 2006, 12:18 am »

Well, I got my DAC and preamp back last night and Blammo! - riveting!! The difference was unbelievable. This tells me the amps are very transparent and will show rise to the level of the source.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 Dec 2006, 06:10 am »

Well, I hooked my Sig 70s up to a 5 ohm, 10 watt resistor, one on each amp. I used a jumper wire, the one normally intended to jumper the top and bottom of the two speaker contacts on a VMPS RM40. I "fastened" [by crimping] the resistor across the two leads on the end of the jumper and stuck each of the other ends of the jumper into the amp output jacks.

I have the amp's volume knobs at about 2:30 and I will be playing a CD on repeat till morning. I plan to make this a nightly routine for the next month or so.

nicksgem10s · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:14 am »

I am officially in the club.

The build quality was the first thing that jumped out at me. Vinnie, you have built what I think is the coolest amps I have seen.

I can't believe their small footprint and what I am hearing out of them even right out of the box. I only had a couple hours to run them

so far but can tell this was worth the wait and then some. All the posts from others talking about how much better things get with some hours

logged on them has me very interested to hear what is in store in the coming days and weeks. I will report more shortly. Thanks Vinnie for getting

these to me safe & sound. Awesome packaging made sure these were flawless when I opened the boxes.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #35 on:** 18 Dec 2006, 02:20 pm »

Hi Nick,

Welcome aboard!

Quote

Vinnie, you have built what I think is the coolest amps I have seen.

Thanks!

Quote

Thanks Vinnie for getting

these to me safe & sound. Awesome packaging made sure these were flawless when I opened the boxes.

Please keep us posted and many thanks for your feedback!

Quote

Well, I got my DAC and preamp back last night and Blammo! - riveting!! The difference was unbelievable. This tells me the amps are very transparent and will show rise to the level of the source.

Hey Miklorsmith,

This is very true, so find a source that you really love the sound of, and then feed it directly into to Sig 70s. Or, you can 'flavor' the sound of your source with a preamp if you must

Hi Seminarian,

Keep us posted...thanks!

-Vinnie

JanJ · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 07:11 am »

So to burn-in Signature 30 with resistors, one would use half of that for Sig 70 monoblocks?

8ohm 5W resistor for each speaker output?

-JanJ

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Dec 2006, 03:27 pm »

Quote from: JanJ on 19 Dec 2006, 07:11 am

So to burn-in Signature 30 with resistors, one would use half of that for Sig 70 monoblocks?

8ohm 5W resistor for each speaker output?

-JanJ

Hi JanJ,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

You can also use a 4-ohm, 10W resistor per channel with your Signature 30.

Best regards,

Vinnie

nicksgem10s · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Dec 2006, 03:38 pm »

Okay here are my initial impressions after about 60 hours on the amps.

Wow!

I have been running the amps while I am at work and listening when home & then charging them overnight. I think the battery design is brilliant and charging is a breeze.

I am coming from Nuforce monoblock amplifiers and have owned a highly modified DK Design integrated before that and a Krell KSA 100s & Krell KRC prior to that. I have also had the following preamps in the last couple years: Krell KRC, Nuforce P8, CAT SL1 mk III, Superphon Rev III, & Dodd Audio Reference Level Tube Preamp.

If you are familiar with the amplifiers that I owned before you can see one thing they all had in common..
much higher power ratings than the RWA Signature 70 monoblocks.

Do not be deceived by the modest power ratings of the RWA Sig 70s. I have listened to my Reference 3A Royal Master Series II (6 ohm 92db) and my Consonance Eric Grand 3 way floorstanders (4 ohm 91db) and I have yet to push the volume past 12 or 1 oclock using my Consonance cd120 (modded) cd player direct without a preamp.

The Sig 70s have some serious drive. I am hearing better bass than I have ever heard in my room with a variety of amps, preamps, speakers. I don't mean that the mids and highs don't sound incredible, they do and I am expecting them to continue to improve with break in. I will definitely post more as the break is completed.

I am more than pleased at this point and never knew how good my system could sound. I also never thought I would be happy without an expensive tube preamp in my system. I previously placed an ad to sell my Consonance Eric Grand speakers previously thinking they were the bottleneck in my system. Sometimes you never know how wrong you can be. I wouldn't even consider selling them after having heard them with the RWA Sig 70s.

Happy Holidays to everyone and a big THANKS to Vinnie!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 12:30 am »

Hi nicksgem10s,

Thank you for posting your initial impressions of the Signature 70s. Glad to hear that you are really enjoying them!

Happy Holidays,

Vinnie