RMAF

avahifi · « **on:** 30 Oct 2006, 03:25 pm »

Thanks to all our friends that visited us and Jim Salk at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. It was my first audio show in many years but won't be my last.

I was a bit disappointed that I never met any mainstream reviewers at the show, the advertising saleman and my contact for placing ads in TAS showed up but nobody else that I noticed. One web based reviewer did show up and I heard a "wow" from him. However, when we switched systems for him to my little tube amp and the HT2s, he informed me with authority that he was hearing my CD player degrade the sound (digital out running to a duplicate of the Ultra DAC used in the main system). Gee, its the same old HK unit I have used for the past 10 years or so for circuit evaluation here, must be getting deaf.

I may have offended one lady with a badge turned backwards who asked me after an intent listening session, just one question, "what brand of cables are you using?" Geeze. I answered, "old rope". Hope that did not queer a good rating.

Oh well.

Yes, we did have a problem on Friday, never again try an untested speaker in a foreign listening enviroment. Its kind of like the advice to trial attorneys, never ask a question of a witness that you are not absolutely sure of what the answer is going to be. We learned the hard way, but all was fine on Saturday and Sunday.

I did brave the crowd a bit with my favorite torture CD, Clair Marlow from Sheffield Labs. The first cut can sound wildly different (and horribly wrong) on various systems. It seems to bring out the very worst flaws in playback equipment. I heard it sound wildly different and wrong many times (but not on our setup). One super high tech room played the top end like broken glass, the excuse, our cables are not broken in (so much for super high tech presentation). A huge electrostatic system played everything nearly perfectly but the female voices defined the flaw - sand. Big chunks of sand, pea gravel sized. A giant horn system simply honked, the singers were cheerleaders out on the football field with megaphones (no surprise). A highly regraded $20,000 set of speakers and A rated boogoo buck electronics played with the best absolutely flat two dimensional representation I had yet heard. On it went, another full range electrostatic system completely lost the throat and mouth of the singer, chest only. Most rooms I only managed 15 seconds or so to spare everyone the agony. I did hear good playback in two or three rooms, and my survey likely missed many more good rooms, but I had expected more, much more.

We use the cut here over and over to attempt to rid the systems of any possible obvious flaws, and we find that if the system will play it, it will likely play anything really well.

Anyway, I had fun, and my legs held up for the trip. Now if I only get all the equipment back in one piece from the shipping company (hopefully this week).

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. No, I am not going to name names.

Sine · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 04:08 pm »

Frank,
Are you referring to Clair Marlo's Let It Go title? I know of 2 import versions, both on Sheffield Lab.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 05:34 pm »

I may have offended one lady with a badge turned backwards who asked me after an intent listening session, just one question, "what brand of cables are you using?" Geeze. I answered, "old rope". Hope that did not queer a good rating.

Oh well.

Geezee Frank!!!

Couldn't you have said something instead of "Old Rope" Maybe something like "The very best old rope I could find"!!!

Cheers
Charlie

[/quote]

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 07:25 pm »

can you suggest a source for the Clair Marlow/Sheffield Labs CD, Frank?

30 years ago I bought a Leontyne Price record for the same purpose - for 5 seconds of one track which almost no system could reproduce without falling apart. That 5 sec was a glissando down through an octave sung fortissimo and it sure separated the wheat from the chaff in a hurry. On most systems there would be a sudden bark at some point during the slide.

When I bought it I thought I didn't like opera, but have since (and because of Leontyne Price's performance on this disc) grown to like some of it, especially Verdi.
Russell

boead · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 07:36 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 30 Oct 2006, 03:25 pm

Gee, its the same old HK unit I have used for the past 10 years or so for circuit evaluation here, must be getting deaf.

Try this: http://www.crystalinks.com/earconing.html

jmc207 · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 08:15 pm »

Clair Marlo CD's are available at http://www.clairmarlo.com/ and Amazon.com

avahifi · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 08:27 pm »

Unfortunately, the remastered version of Let It Go sold by the Clair Marlo web site does not have the fidelity or capability of the original Sheffield CD. Try and find the original, maybe used, for the true torture test first track.

Frank Van Alstine

jmc207 · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 09:07 pm »

Thanks for that info Frank, I was just about to order the CD off her web site.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 09:08 pm »

I just ordered a used one from Amazon. I'm crossing my fingers that it's the original! I wonder what year the remastering was done and how I can identify the original.
Russell

BradJudy · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 12:01 am »

It was good to meet you at the show - I thought the setup sounded very good and I appreciated your thoughts on amplifier design.

boead · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 01:58 pm »

Ok, now that you have heard of ear candling, How about this?
http://buttcandle.com/procedure.html

CE2 · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 02:10 pm »

When it don't sound right, the CABLES not broken in!!! Man oh man. Then if that don't work it's the WRONG AC cord!!!! Never a poor amp design, or poor pre amp, or just plain lousy speakers. Or lousy recording. They didn't burn in the speaker wires. Should I be "burning in" some new NM run to a new wall outlet? Actually I don't like the word BURN in any new electrical insatallation. It's been done all through history, say a lie long enough, and it beocmes true. Without it, there would be not so many magic cable makers. Frank, was Legacy on display anywhere? Hope they didn't disappoint ya if they where.

Toka · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Nov 2006, 04:44 pm »

Hey Frank,

Did you by chance get to listen to Roger Russell's IDS line-array speaker system? Other than your (and Jim's) wares that was the only other item I would've been interested in hearing, had I been able to go.

avahifi · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Nov 2006, 11:04 pm »

I did hear these, they suffered in my opinion by the Macintosh electronics that were driving them. I offered them a Fet Valve Ultra amp, but they were using a balanced line connection we could not instantly accomodate. Oh well.

You better have high ceilings for these.

Frank

Toka · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Nov 2006, 11:50 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 7 Nov 2006, 11:04 pm

You better have high ceilings for these.

Frank

Heh, no kidding! Bummer they couldn't use your gear...another time, perhaps. Doubt I'll ever have the money for the IDS but it makes for nice window shopping. Subtracting the gear used, was the design well implemented in your opinion?

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Nov 2006, 12:08 am »

Frank and Toka:
Best sound in any room I heard at the show. I stopped in three times just to listen. Last time there a listener there who said "This is amazing" I agree. But 19K for the speakers plus Lord knows how much for the electronics puts them kind of out of reach of the ordinary guy.
They are only 88.5" tall so they should fit in most ordinary rooms.

Cheers
Charlie

WEEZ · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Nov 2006, 01:59 am »

Hmmm....I guess it just goes to show yuh, (er, you) that we all hear differently. Sorry dad, but if the speaker you're talking about is the one I'm thinking of....well, it was kinda' like an ear assault by 50 razor blades....and MacIntosh is not known for that type of sound from their electronics....must have been the speakers.

Bose 901's in a vertical cabinet?

WEEZ!

bpape · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Nov 2006, 02:32 am »

I thought they showed a lot of promise - as much as I'm not a line array or EQ fan. I'd have loved to hear them with some better electronics.

Bryan

gitarretyp · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Nov 2006, 03:34 am »

I'm not usually one to complain about over priced speakers, but those IDS speakers could easily be built DIY for ~$2000. If there were a crossover or something complex about the design, i wouldn't encourage it; however, it can be built with 50 drivers that sell for ~$30/each at madisound (see this thread at HTGuide).

EclecticSeeker · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Nov 2006, 04:29 pm »

I enjoyed the sound of these speakers – it was very good, in fact, though not worth the money in my book. They definitely would have benefited from Frank’s electronics, as most (if not all) of the other speakers at RMAF would have! I was very suspicious of the EQ being applied to attain that sound, though – I wouldn’t be surprised if Frank’s Ultra amp revealed issues with that that weren't audible with the Mac's.