Just Picked Up Used RM 40's W/ TRT's And Spirals

ka7niq · « **on:** 7 Apr 2006, 06:15 am »

We just got them in house at 12.30 am EST.
Had to lug them down a flight of nearly vertical stairs too!
I am in Tampa, Florida, and my friends Melankev and Tunz also own 40's.
Mine are different then Tunz's.'
He has a switch on the back, mine are w/o switch, so you have to bi wire, or use a jumper.
So, there are now 3 confirmed "cases" of RM 40 fever in Tampa, LOL
Mine will be treated to a Moscode 600 tube/mosfet hybrid amp that will do 500 rms into 4 ohms.
I have a Dared tube line stage thats been tweaked, and a LITE DAC 72 tube dac.
I also have some big monoblocks that will do about 800 watts into 4 ohms.
I hear there have been up grades like the CD waveguide, and new mid woofers.
I am scared of the new midwoofers if I have to replace my TRT's ?
If I bi amped, would I still have to replace my TRT's ?
Does Brian make an electronic crossover for the 40's ?
What would the logical up grade path be for me if I wish to eventually bi amp ?
I would like an all tube amp on the ribbons eventuallly.
Any ideas guys ?
Thanks,
Chris in Tampa

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 01:05 pm »

Congratulations and welcome to AC. As for running full, I am sure Kevin can fill you in with any details if he hasn't already. Midwoofer upgrade is just adding a couple of caps to existing bundle. It really is not a big to do. If you biamp, you are not obviating the TRT caps. You just desolder the coil and you disconnect the woofers from the rest. Here is a picture.

The big bundle of caps is the highpass for the panels. You would be adding one or two to that if you do the midwoofer upgrade. I power the panels and the tweeter (passive filter and all) with tubes straight out from my preamp. I run the woofers with ICE amps through an active 4th order filter (Marchand). Enjoy the speakers as they are for a while to get a sense of what they are like with your gear -- there is all that putty and placement in your room to do. If at some point after that you still want to biamp, I am sure you can get answers to your questions here. BTW, additional dowel bracing and damping is suppose to be quite beneficial for this vintage cabinets. I don't know if having 2 spirals instead of 1 FST would be good or bad for the CDWG upgrade. Anyway, welcome again and have a great Masters weekend.

John Casler · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: ka7niq

We just got them in house at 12.30 am EST.
Had to lug them down a flight of nearly vertical stairs too!
I am in Tampa, Florida, and my friends Melankev and Tunz also own 40's.
Mine are different then Tunz's.'
He has a switch on the back, mine are w/o switch, so you have to bi wire, or use a jumper.
So, there are now 3 confirmed "cases" of RM 40 fever in Tampa, LOL
Mine will be treated to a Moscode 600 tube/mosfet hybrid amp that will do 500 rms into 4 ohms.
I have a Dared tube line stage thats been t ...

Chris, WELCOME!

The Midwoofer upgrade does require changing a couple caps, but not all, due to the x-over adjustment from 166hz to around 200hz.

Look forward to hearing about your adventures with the 40's.

It does look like we have a VMPS "outbreak" in FLA

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 02:46 pm »

is this Eric's old pair?

George

tdangelo · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 03:01 pm »

I don't think these are Eric's - I sold mine(his) to a guy in NY State.

ka7niq · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 04:33 pm »

Quote from: zybar

is this Eric's old pair?

George

No, the guy here north of Tampa replaced these with big Soundlabs.
Listened to the big Soundlabs too, had to while we were there.
Here is my impressions.
Big, ponderous sound with dipole depth, vague image.
Super detailed sound favoring the upper mids and treble, kinda like a 40 with it's panels turned too high!
Horrible glare on female voice, possibly due to amp.
He was using a big Sim Audio, but pre amping with an Onkyo Integra preamp/processor, OUCH!
He wound up asking me about the Vandersteen 5a's!
Honestly, the way the Soundlabs sounded, my friend Tunz's 40 sound better, at least to me.
In all fairness, he just got the Soundlabs a few months ago, and at 20 grand a pair, has little left to get some real stuff in front of them!
I told him I would kick his butt if he didnt take the money I gave him for the 40's and buy a real preamp, one with tubes.
I also suggested he dump the Sim Audio, and call John Casler to see about getting a Bongiorno ampzilla.
Oh, BTW, he bought these from John Casler!
He flew out from Florida, met Brian and John!
These 40's dont have a switch because John Casler and Brian said they sound beeter w/o a switch.
I have never seem this before, my friend Tunz's 40's have the switch.

As they were, the Soundlabs were screaming for tubes to flesh them out!

woodsyi · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 04:54 pm »

Big sound laps seriously need big tubes like Kevins to drive them. Voltage hungry stats and tubes -- match made in heaven. He should also treat his back wall or get SALLIE. They are gorgeous speakers but need some TLC and a lot of room to run (at least 6 feet off the wall).

The newer RM40s come without switches.

ka7niq · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 06:56 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi

Big sound laps seriously need big tubes like Kevins to drive them. Voltage hungry stats and tubes -- match made in heaven. He should also treat his back wall or get SALLIE. They are gorgeous speakers but need some TLC and a lot of room to run (at least 6 feet off the wall).

The newer RM40s come without switches.

Yeah, Kevin has Kora's Tube amps/preamp and I bet that will light them up?
They had potential, and I have heard their older brethren sound great!
That is, when they werent in transit to Utah to be repaired, lol.
I guess the new ones have the reliability problems fixed ?
Time will tell.
The guy went to a dealers and got blown away by them.
For me, before I dropped 20 grand, I think I would have visited Brian or John to hear Elixirs ?
But, thats me.
Well, I got 40's just sitting here.
I also own 8 other pairs of speakers!
I have Von Schweikert Vortex Screen prototypes, all 300 lbs of them, in my living room, and need help putting them away in "hibernation".
One thing for absolutely sure, I need bases for these speakers!
I have Berber carpets, and a big Dobie/Shepard cross that is very playful.
I could potentially see her knocking the 40's over if she sees a cat!

OTL · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 07:02 pm »

Oh the shame, thinking that your Dobie/Shepard cross might "lift a leg" on them '40's.

ka7niq · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: John Casler

Chris, WELCOME!

The Midwoofer upgrade does require changing a couple caps, but not all, due to the x-over adjustment from 166hz to around 200hz.

Look forward to hearing about your adventures with the 40's.

It does look like we have a VMPS "outbreak" in FLA

Yes, Tampa is experiencing Hurricane activity!
The VMPS RM 40 is taking Tampa by storm, LOL
When I do the mid woofer upgrade, do you have to add TRT's ?
Are TRT's on the tweeter only, or throughout the 40 ?

John Casler · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 07:58 pm »

Quote from: ka7niq

I am scared of the new midwoofers if I have to replace my TRT's ? ...

You only need replace a couple caps, if I remember correctly

Quote from: ka7niq

If I bi amped, would I still have to replace my TRT's ? ...

No, only if you do the mid-woofer upgrade

Quote from: ka7niq

Does Brian make an electronic crossover for the 40's ? ...

No, the RM40 is designed to include the passive cross-over networks.

Quote from: ka7niq

What would the logical up grade path be for me if I wish to eventually bi amp ?
...

You options are:

1) Midwoofer upgrade
2) Passive Radiator Vitrification
3) Adding internal Bracing
4) Adding SR-71 (Black Hole 5)
5) Adding Lambs Wool behind the NeoPanels
6) Constant Directivity Wave Guide

These are not nessesarily in an "upgrade path" order, since all can be done individually at any stage.

Quote from: ka7niq

I would like an all tube amp on the ribbons eventuallly. ...

You could use the AMPzilla for the woofs (check out the Marketplace. Shokunin is offering a pair of AMPZilla 2Ks.

Corbin "ALSO IN FLA" is now using the 600wpc CineNova to power his RM40 woofer system with NuFORCE on top.

I bet Corbin would let you hear his "Midwoofer" upgrade. He is north of you.

ka7niq · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 09:01 pm »

Does the mid woofer provide more warmth in lower mids ?
I played with my friends 40's in a room with 14 ft ceilings.
Either the midrange balance on male voice was too thin, or it was chesty.
I am totally anal about speech reproduction, and I was unable to get just the right sound on Male voice.
It could have been his bass was mis tuned, or his equipment, because at Kevins voices were spot on.
To be honest, this is what "spooked" me from owning 40's sooner.
I like the warm, rich sound of British Harbeths, Spendors, 801's etc, on voices.
I always felt, deep down, that a higher crossover point would be better solution, allowing speaker to work even better in a wide variety of rooms.
Gotta hand it to Brian, he is UP on things, and it would seem that he has adressed this "problem" for some customers.
Like I said, Kevin dont have a problem, its Mike that does.
He dont feel that way, BTW.
He could care less how TV sounds, but I care, and I care very much.
He dismisses the chesty sound he is getting as a poor source, TV.
I think not, going through 50 channels, all cant be bad, or so I think.
The new mid woofer will be my first upgrade, IF I have the "problem" I perceive Mike as having.
I dont have 14 foor ceilings, i have a suspended styrofoam ceiling, and RM 40's top driver will be only a foot or so away, plenty of loading there.'Mikes poor upper woofer is almost 9 feet away from ceiling!
It isn't getting much help.

Corbin Johnson · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:27 pm »

ka7niq (I'm sure you have a name),

Congratulations on your 40's. I love mine and they have evolved alot since I originally purchased them three years ago, so I'm familiar with all the upgrades except the FST, since mine were one of the first from the factory with the FST. I started with stock caps and upgraded to auracaps; added the midwoofer upgrade; single amped and now biamp; tried SS preamps but am now using a tube preamp, and soon will have the waveguides and black hole.

The midwoofer upgrade was a great improvement in my system. It gave me the warmth I felt was slightly lacking in blues and R&R music. Biamping the woofers with the 300 wpc channel Cinenova and using the Nuforce for the mids and highs even took it to another level, so I don't think you can have too much power for the woofers. I also have a larger sub with the plate amp VMPS offers, but don't really need it now for any type of music.

I bet I bought my sub from the same guy you bought your 40's. Unfortunately, I forgot his name, but his screen name was something like the irishnutter. I never got to hear his system since he was having work done on his amps at the time.

You're welcome to come to Winter Park any time. Also, I'll look you guys up when I'm in Tampa. I've been wanting to hear some other RM40's especially with tube amps.

Corbin

JoshK · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Apr 2006, 10:51 pm »

Somebody share ka7's new excitement and buy my pair!

James Romeyn · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 01:22 am »

I personally would do absolutely nothing to mod 40s except for after the CDW. Also, tubes must power the ribbon array, preferably with the mid L-pads set to max (out of circuit; HET L-pad must be turned down only a bit to blend). This requires a level control IFO the ribbon OR bass amp to get gains matched. Use Pro-Gold copiously to get the smoothest sound from the ribbons. IMO the RM series deserve the best possible electronics in front of them. The previous owner with the slabs is nuts using that junk in front of them IMO, & doubt anyone here will disagree.

JoshK why don't you just stuff your 40s in Agone & sell them? Mine sold in a week. Post a lot of pics, get them totally in OEM shape. Let me know if you want some tips to sell them. You CAN get cartons from Brian & ship them, it's no big deal.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 01:49 am »

Sorry, all RM 40's are crated and there are no spares.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 02:31 am »

Maybe a member was um, scrupulous enough to save their original crates. The RM40 buyer could pay the crate possessor a cash security deposit, the crates are sent empty to Josh, then after the 40 buyer receives the speakers he/she returns the empty crates to the lender, the lender returns the deposit to the buyer minus a fee for the service. The owner just needs to get a big enough deposit to gaurantee they will get their crates returned.

warnerwh · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 05:21 am »

Josh seems to have plenty of woodworking skills. Building some cabinets using wafer board and drywall screws doesn't take much time. I just built a cabinet for some Maggie 3.5's to ship them and it was pretty easy.

If you go this route build a double wide cabinet and just put some feet on it so a pallet jack can get under it.

ka7niq · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Apr 2006, 08:59 pm »

Quote from: Corbin Johnson

ka7niq (I'm sure you have a name),

Congratulations on your 40's. I love mine and they have evolved alot since I originally purchased them three years ago, so I'm familiar with all the upgrades except the FST, since mine were one of the first from the factory with the FST. I started with stock caps and upgraded to auracaps; added the midwoofer upgrade; single amped and now biamp; tried SS preamps but am now using a tube preamp, and soon will have the waveguides and black hole.

The midwoofer upgrade ...

Yes, I bought them from the Irishnutter.
He has went Soundlabs, and had another Talon Subwoofer at his home.

PLMONROE · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Apr 2006, 03:39 am »

Jim, I think you have posted this suggestion before, but would you clarify a bit? If I understand you, you suggest turning the mid range pots up to max and the high range pots to max and then backing them off a bit. But does then not give a huge bass mismatch or am I missing something? Thanks.

Paul