[jules]

I don’t know about you but I’ve got a sort of natural reticence to turning the volume up very high on my system. The obvious reason is that I don’t want to cause any damage to my speakers or my amp but on thinking about it a bit more and I realize that from past experience turning the volume up is a sort of novelty that becomes tiring after 5 minutes or so without adding anything to the quality of the sound. I suppose I’ve always thought that this was simply because “loud” was in itself tiring but now I think it’s probably more a matter of  being subjected to more of those mysterious “fatiguing” elements that can be a part of the solid state experience.  

So, a little bug got into my ear the other day and tempted me to see how my amp/speaker [AKSA 55N+ ;  PHL,Raven MTM 95db efficient speaker] system would sound if I pushed it a bit. I chose acoustic tracks because it’s easier to detect distortion than with amplified sound and tricks.

I started my experiment with a David Olney song, Jerusalem Tomorrow sung by Emmylou Harris. It’s a far from typical piece of country music with hint of ambiguous blackness and a sparse presentation. By the third run through this track I’d gradually removed about 15db of attenuation from my normal listening volume still leaving me with a safety margin but most importantly with no hint of any form of stress from amp or drivers. This was loud to the extent that it was into the zone where it probably wasn’t a great idea for my ears and I was glad my neighbours live more than 1.5km away. The interesting thing was that normal AKSA rules still applied and instead of being flattened by a wall of sound, I was drawn in by the emergence of a whole series of quieter layers of sound that are usually inaudible or very, very soft.

Emboldened, I decided to get into something a bit more meaty in the form of some Bach organ work, Chorale Variations and Partitas, BMV 766-770. This is part of a three disc Decca set by Peter Hurford. It has all the build up of a five day test match [sorry to those of you who don’t do cricket J ] in that it strategically saves the climax till the end while weaving a great spell along the [70 min] way. At the end it sounds pretty much as though the organist is employing not only his fingers and feet but probably has his forearms and a brick on the keyboard as well. It’s big and I was mightily impressed. Some analysis … The lowest notes of the organ clearly show at least three components. There’s a clear “central” tone that is the basic note, surrounded by a more ethereal “tubey” sound and accompanied by the soft fluffy sound of moving air. Most of this is audible at normal listening levels but much more three dimensional when loud. The “brass” stop mid range notes scorch! A visual analogy struck me, that the sound is like a spray of red flecks on cool background. I have no idea what frequency or what harmonic these sounds are although they are there in small amounts and dissonant in a vibrant brassy way … very gutsy and not audible at lower listening levels! The high notes come through with total clarity and a laser cutting sharpness that threatens to cleanly slice off the top of your head, in the nicest possible way of course.

The overall impression from this experience was not of  “volume” (although my ears did need a rest at the end). The AKSA simply revelled in being given the chance to open up and deliver the full spectrum of its amplified message without a hair out of place. The feeling was of enormous power tightly controlled and delivered with complete virtuosity. For everyday listening this sort of volume isn’t practical but it’s undoubtedly a truer representation of an original performance. If we slice 10 or 15db off this we also slice off a large amount of information that isn’t really replaced by injecting a little H2 via tubes. I’d even dare to suggest that an amp running at say 50% is not audiophile in terms of delivering a full and true message but it’s sustainable in terms of preserving our ears.

To do this little test you’re going to need either a 100W Aksa or a 55W with some reasonably efficient speakers [say 92db +]. So, if you haven’t tried it maybe you give your amp its head for an hour or two. C’mon, stuff the neighbours, this is fun!

jules

[gonefishin]

I really let the music dictate the volume levels.  Well, it's not so rigid or written in stone that if I listen to music A then the volume must be at level B.  But more so that when playing music type A the volume seems to gravitate to level B.

   I also don't know if I'd say that this particular exercise would work in all systems.  Playing loud isn't something that all systems can do without strain.  While I'll leave the reasoning to those of you who are qualified...I've found the limiting culprits could be anything from the recording, amplifiers, speakers (in general), driver capabilities at higher levels, total system or room problems.

    For the above reasons (and culprits) I really find it difficult to compare SPL's of the same song on different systems...in different rooms.  I know this sounds like nit-picking of a sort.  But one spl will sound very different from one system to another...and one can certainly be more annoying, or even incapable of reaching those SPL's cleanly.  What loud on one system (say 95db) may not be perceived as loud as 100db on another system.

    When playing at loud levels I really think your looking into the capabilities of the amp/drivers/room synergy more than anything else.But to add onto the total SPL aspect of this...I think you may also be hitting on the ability to play a wide dynamic range with little compression.  Which (I think) aids in the portrayal of low level detail.  

   Why do my levels "gravitate" to different levels.  Most times...because that's just the levels that sound "right" to me.  My mind can't help but to think of the levels of a small jazz band should be near the perceived SPL that I believe them to be (sounds hokey, eh?).  Dean Martin should also be at another level.  While a trumpet just doesn't sound right when the peaks are only in the low 90's.  It's still nice to listen to...but it just doesn't sound as it should.  The same could be said for Large orchestral or Gospel music.  It just sounds "right" at certain volumes, but not if the system doesn't have capabilities to play with a wide dynamic range without cutting out at high levels.  Actually...many systems seem to have troubles with complicated music with a large dynamic range even at moderate levels.  That's why you've gotta pick the system that suits your needs and preferences.

     But then again...I don't think a wide dynamic range or the ability to play that range at higher levels is a desirable trait to many audiophiles.  This isn't something that I think is apparent in just audio systems...but if they were to actually listen to a trumpet, sax, drum kit in person in a small to moderate sized playing room.  I think many people would much prefer the quieter more compressed version of said instrument.

   dan

[jules]

Dan,

I agree with everything you've said and I certainly wouldn't like to encourage anyone to destroy good equipment with trivial intent   .

I did this test with care and it doesn't reflect my normal listening which is pretty much along the same lines as yours.

What I did find interesting was that the AKSA, driven at relatively high levels, is still precise, true and accurate but most of all engaging without being fatiguing. I think this test might bring quite a few amps down for this latter reason and maybe it should be a tool in amp assesment. If you can listen to an amp for an hour at high levels without the dreaded fatigue factor, you've got something special.

jules

[AKSA]

Jules,

Thank you for a long and fascinating discourse on the high SpL aspects of high end.  There is definitely lots of music which really does need higher volume, and the ability of the AKSA to do this is in large measure because there is no output stage protection, which almost always compresses the signal, resulting in audible congestion at high levels.

You can protect the output stage by huge overdesign - good transistors, well cooled - fuses, and moderate care in how you load the amp.

Just recently I've been doodling with the low power brigage;  a single ended triode.  This is absolutely flat strap at 6W and just can't compete with an AKSA!!  But it sounds pretty good on female vocals.......

Cheers,

Hugh

[Geoff-AU]

Pink Floyd really does need higher volume

I agree, Hugh  

Edit - I agree with Dan's comments the most, music often has a "right" level to listen at.  And it normally corresponds roughly with the SPL the source can be reasonably expected to produce.  At lower volumes, you will miss the low-level details.  At higher volumes everything is amplified and sounds overbearing.  Hence why instrumental things (esp pianos and other non-amplified things) sound better at mid-level volumes and things like electric guitars can sound great when you give them a bit more stick.

[jules]

folks,

I'm not suggesting there's any value in over-amplifying a source. Most of my original post was devoted to organ music which is bloody loud by any count.

What I was attempting to do was to choose a musical source that was naturally loud and to give my amp a chance to see what it could do with it.

At the same time I agree with this comment from Dan:-

"but if they were to actually listen to a trumpet, sax, drum kit in person in a small to moderate sized playing room. I think many people would much prefer the quieter more compressed version of said instrument."

Most musical instruments are considerably louder in reality than people generally think they are. A trumpet and a sax are obvious examples but even a grand piano can make a hell of a lot of noise.

jules

[lonewolfny42]

The volume control has always been my friend....glad to see some using it more often....

Chris[/list:u]

[lonewolfny42]

folks,

I'm not suggesting there's any value in over-amplifying a source. Most of my original post was devoted to organ music which is bloody loud by any count.

What I was attempting to do was to choose a musical source that was naturally loud and to give my amp a chance to see what it could do with it.

Here's a good cd to see what your system can do....available soon....was on the Dorian label...now Gothic Records.[/list:u]

http://www.store.yahoo.com/ohscatalog/petconplayma.html[/list:u]

[Gordy]

The Wanamaker organ is truely breathtaking to see and hear!  I live only 35 mins. away and have only heard it three times... and they were all Christmas shows...     Here's a link to the instuments specifications...

http://www.wanamakerorgan.com/index1.html

[gonefishin]

Hi Jules,

  I cou;dn't agree with you more regarding the performance of the AKSA on up to high volumes.  It not only stays together (where many amps would fall apart), it does it with (what seems to be) an expanded dynamic range, when compared to other amps capabilities.  It's just such a solid performer!  It's very listenable at high levels...and just so controlled.
 
     take care,
  dan

[jules]

I've thought about my high volume test and I think I've learned some interesting things about the complexity of sound .....

For instance, a trumpet played loudly in your presence, is loud to the point of being painful. One of its distinctive features at high volume is that it has a sort ragged, strident edge to it. Previously I'd thought that this sound was in itself loud but now I reckon it's relatively soft  but also very dissonant so that it stands out very clearly as a contrast.  The problem is that because this sound is actually soft it gets lost at low listening levels.
 
I'd be willing to extend this idea and suggest that there are also a number of soft but more melodious sounds which don't stand out at low volume but nonetheless make up the defining essence of different instruments. A violin for example produces sound from it's strings, from the bow string, from resonant frequencies generated by the internal volume of the body of the instrument, from resonant frequencies developed by the wood of the instrument etc.. Some of these are loud and some are soft but if we just listen to the loud sound we are only getting a thin rendition of the full thing.

Dan and Geoff, you make the point that you listen at what you judge to be the "right" level for differing situations but surely this is very subjective? I have friends who think the right place for the volume knob is at about 7 oclock, where I usually listen at about 12 [I'm deliberately avoiding figures here]. Young blokes with doof doof car systems have them turned up way past the point that I would consider "overbearing" but they are clearly quite comfortable.

Now I, like you, listen to my music at what I judge to be a "right" level of some sort and I'm not suggesting we should all crank up our systems to pain level at all but after my test I've come to believe that there's more information available on good recordings than I had previously thought and occasionally it's worth cranking it up to appreciate this.

jules[/i]

[Seano]

I've been cranking my 100N+ for years and it's not unusual to get the thing to the point where the heatsinks are getting quite scary to touch.

But it really whips into it.  The opening to Massive Attack's Mezzanine album is a cracker at volume cause it makes a creepy and brooding track so much more so and there is heaps there to take in.  Be warned though - the faux drum rim percussion can rely express the tweeter and midrange!!

I've also had Van Halen and Faith No More at very anti social levels (like others I have no near neighbours) and there's nothing better than feeling bass with your body while your ears are being sawed by electric guitar.

So the AKSA is even quite satisfying on plain old modern commercial rubbish too.

[jules]

Sean,

this might appeal to you as a bush person. I've been thinking about adding a sub to my system. I'm pretty sure I'll go with a Rythmik sub

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/servo_product.htm

and I've found a useful solution to the "box" challenge in that I'm going to use a large section of termite-eaten-out tallow-wood trunk instead of the more usual MDF solution.

I kind of like the idea of a bass that I can switch off if I want to, besides, 350W of sub is hard to equal with the normal amounts of power available from an amp.

jules

[gonefishin]

... Dan and Geoff, you make the point that you listen at what you judge to be the "right" level for differing situations but surely this is very subjective?...

  Yep.

[jules]

, ok, ok I'll get down off my soapbox now.

jules

[Geoff-AU]

Dan and Geoff, you make the point that you listen at what you judge to be the "right" level for differing situations but surely this is very subjective?

Yep.. it is.  Unfortunately

Young blokes with doof doof car systems have them turned up way past the point that I would consider "overbearing" but they are clearly quite comfortable.

Industrial deafness is a wonderful thing (oh wait no it's not!)

The opening to Massive Attack's Mezzanine album is a cracker at volume cause it makes a creepy and brooding track so much more so and there is heaps there to take in.

word  

[Seano]

.........and I've found a useful solution to the "box" challenge in that I'm going to use a large section of termite-eaten-out tallow-wood trunk instead of the more usual MDF solution.

I'm kind of curious how you plan to a) calculate the internal volume of the log and b) how you intend to hold it together given the resonant impact on the log of the moving air and any changes in humidity.

The second part will probably be less of a 'problem' than it sounds assuming the tallowood is well seasoned....if you wax it rather than estapol or remain natural then it will help I suspect

....in all I really really like the idea...

 I wonder what one could achieve with a bunch of cheap tourist didgeredoo's?

[jules]

jeeez, those are pretty high tech questions! I was more concerned about how to get the tractor into the house with a few hundred pounds of log hanging off the jib but since you ask ....

hmmm ... a) How about I use a measuring device and some loose sand to work out volume per unit length and then cut it off at the right spot and ...

b) by the time I get to do this after finishing my GK-1 the log should considerably even more cured than now. It sort of chose itself in that I noticed it sitting in a clearing and saw the potential as it's been eaten out to something like 50-75mm all round. Intuitively, I doubt that it's going to explode on me though that could be a novel first.

I agree on the natural/wax treatment, though I'll probably leave it untreated for stabilization for a while.

Yeah, you're right, it's a sort of giant didg. and that has a definite appeal.

jules

[Seano]

I was more concerned about how to get the tractor into the house with a few hundred pounds of log hanging off the jib but since you ask....

That's hardly an issue.....you just make to door bigger!  It's less messy than letting a swinging log on a tractor jib doing it for you......

Of course, one could ask to why one built a country house where one's tractor could not be parked more conveiniently.....you weren't thinking ahead were you?

As for sorting out internal volume.....you could slide a length of heavy plastic pipe down the guts....something like high pressure grade UPVC pipe (it ain't cheap at $80/m for a 300mm diameter - I've seen it to 600mm dia ).  Back fill the pipe with your sand (shame to waste good sand). Then internal volume calculation is simple math....

[jules]

I'll report back on this one.

In an act of desperation I referred to the instructions on box size and found that it needs to be between 1.6 & 2.0 cubic feet. With that flexibility I suppose I don't need to get too fussed about exactness.

jules