Comment on the AVA website that I found fascinating

ajzepp · « **on:** 11 Feb 2006, 03:00 am »

One of my 'fears' about finally upgrading to a really high end system is the idea of poorly recorded CDs sounding like absolute crap. My taste in music is very ecclectic, and admittedly some of my collection does fall into the rock/pop genre. I do own a lot of very well-recorded stuff, but at the same time there are some that are nearly unlistenable on a really transparent system.

Anyway, I had read a post on another forum about how a guy really felt he hadn't been truly listening to his speakers (Magnepan 3.6s) until he picked up a Van Alstine 550 EX Fet Valve hybrid amp. So naturally I took note of this forum and the AVA website, and as I'm reading about the differences between the Omega amps and the Fet valve ones, I come across this tidbit:

"The OmegaStar EX amplifiers are clear as glass, pure, transparent, dynamic and detailed, with no rough edges at all. They make your good CDs just wonderful and enjoyable. The Fet Valve EXR amplifiers do even more—they make your badly recorded CDs enjoyable, too."

Now I have absolutely no knowledge of tube or hybrid amps whatsoever. My only experience is with solid state stuff. Can anyone expound on this particular statement from the website and help me understand how this is possible? If Frank's amps can do that, then my search for an amp is over....plain and simple.

Anyone?

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Feb 2006, 06:59 am »

Maybe I'm out of line here but I don't see how any SS amp could make any cd with no rough edges at all. Maybe he means that you will not have the grain and grunge that is common in many SS power amps that are out there including many big names.

There's no doubt in my mind that Frank's amps are extremely well designed. You have someone who's been doing this since the 70's and understands all the best ways to design a quality power amplifer and does it as well as he can with excellent integrity. All of the Johnny come lately amp designers aren't so novel as they'd like you to believe. They do spend money on advertising which keeps them going though.

Actually I'd say your search is over if you want an amplifier that is extremely well designed for a very good price. I'd go so far as to say you're really not going to get an amp that will sound any better unless you're driving electrostatic speakers with very low impedances with under 2 ohm loads which is extremely rare. I've not owned one of Frank's amps but have heard nothing but good for so many years I can't count them from owners of Van Alstine amps. It's one line that has been praised with no downside I know of for a long long time. I will get his top of the line amp though when I get the money. People's who's ears I trust rave of this amp. Best of luck to you.

avahifi · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Feb 2006, 03:41 pm »

Thanks so much for the kind comments.

Frank Van Alstine

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 12:19 pm »

I'm in that same boat with you, seems like most of the music I like is poorly recorded while much of the best recordings are of music I have little interest in.

To me it in part boils down to priorities, the old desert island question of choosing between a great system with few recordings available or a crummy system with gobs of music. As we audiophiles strive for the nth degree of detail/resolution we get warts and all. So as I've gained experience in this hobby my priorities have shifted to importance of the room, musicality, tonality, and imaging; and away from ultimate detail, 20 - 30 Hz response, and 15,000 - 20,000 Hz response.

I see little reason to spend fanatical amounts of money (whatever that means to you) on equipment. All we're trying to do here is the provide enough audible clues to recreate the original event to satisfy our emotional wants. I try to resist all the marketing hypes that tell us we need ever increasing resolution and extended frequency response to the point we have $50k of equipment shoved into the corner of a family room or small bedroom. IMO that's the route to fustration.

If Frank's common sense, well designed/built, and reasonably priced stuff can really deliver emotional satisfaction for us sick puppies, then more power to him.

ajzepp · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 03:00 pm »

I'm with ya, JLM....I've been looking into all sorts of amplification options for a while now, and from what I can tell it's been worth the effort. I really think Frank's hybrid Fet valve amp is the way to go if I end up with bigger Maggies. They like their juice, but if the sound can be tempered with the incorporation of tubes, that sounds perfect to me. It also seems like his asking price of $2100 is not only reasonable, but a bargain.

Ironically enough, one of the speakers on my short list is the same one Frank should be receiving shortly - the Salk HT3. I've had a few conversations with Jim Salk and the incorporation of the ribbon tweeter with the dynamic drivers is very appealing. I"m dying to hear what Frank says about this speaker after he's had some time with it. I'm also considering the Odyssey Loreleis and DeVore Fidelity Super 8s. In the end I'm 85% certain that I'll just decide to go with bigger Maggies, but I want this to be a solid long term purchase....so I"m gonna take my time.

Anyway, the point is that as soon as I settle on my speakers, I'm goign to order one of these hybrid amps - either the 350 or 550 EX. I'm excited about how my system will sound six months from now

Bill Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 03:17 pm »

I am in the same boat when it comes to my listening habits. Then there is my wife who really loves the 80's music (she is quite a bit younger than I am and grew up during the 80's). We all know how well most 80's music is recorded.

Last night we decided to fire up the home system which contains a pair of large full range speakers that were the largest in my lineup when Response first started (Response Audio started out custom designing and building loudspeakers). These speakers are being driven by a hybrid amp and CD playback is via an old Philips CDi player. Remember those?

This whole system was but together to be warm and involving and my wife and I spent about 3 hours last night just jamin to music we haven't listen to in a while. Mostly 80's "pop" music. Some early Prince, Cool and the Gang, Nazereth and some Motley Crew. My kids hated all of it

I also listen to a lot of the "Big Hair Bands" of the 80's and 90's including my favorite, Great White.

After 3 hours of listening, still no fatigue. So in the end, I think the thinking here is right on track. Franks Hybrid design sound like just the amp to fit your needs. Enjoy the music and let us know how things go with your venture.

TjMV3 · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 06:38 pm »

I'm in a very similar boat as you guys.

I have over one thousand CDs and at least 60% of them are 60s/70s Classic Rock, Hard Rock, Metal, Pop, Country, Funk, Soul and Easy Listening.

Including many, many 80s music from all genras and a lot of 90s (Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and so forth). I love all these types of music and bands, but their recordings are for the most part.......not what I would call quality recordings.

The rest of my collection consists of all types of Jazz, Classical, New Age, World Music and various types of Ambient fusion music.

I have a good amount of very well recorded CDs....some exceptionally.

So I have been trying to build my system with components that are more forgiving of those badly recorded CDs, yet are resolving enough to do justice to the high quality recordings.

I'm all about emotional, passionate, melodic musical....tuneful presentations, rather than analytical super detail.

I agree that room acoustics plays a big part (if not the biggest) in getting the sound one wants.

My search has led me through several pieces of gear and manufactors.

But I believe I have finally found the correct gear and combos....which includes a Van Alstine 550 EX Fet Valve hybrid amp in my near future.

I can't believe anyone (other than me ...LOL) still listens to Nazareth.

Expect No Mercy, No Mean City, Hair Of The Dog and their Best Of ........still see a regular rotation in my listening habits.

[Nazareth........grunts like Tim The Tool Man]

TjMV3 · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 07:05 pm »

" The Fet Valve EXR amplifiers do even more—they make your badly recorded CDs enjoyable, too."

Question.

With the recent upgrades and improvements to the Amps, is the above comment still valid for the FET Valve EXR amps?

ajzepp · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 08:22 pm »

Man, this thread is getting me excited to get some of this stuff going lol....Some of the music you guys are talking about is right up my alley, too! I know this sounds kinda silly, but I feel blessed that we have such awesome equipment available to us.....I love music and film, and it's amazing to me the level of sound reproduction we can get in the home these days.....I'm PSYCHED!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 08:28 pm »

TjMV3 :

Quote

I can't believe anyone (other than me ...LOL) still listens to Nazareth.

All of the world loves a raver
We’re playin for ravers who savor the flavor
You all appear calm and collected
Razamanazin’ you never expected
Were gonna razamataz ya tonight
Were gonna razamanaz ya all night
Razamataz razamanaz up on your feet
Let’s see ya dance, dance, dance
......

[/list:u]

mgalusha · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 08:57 pm »

Quote from: TjMV3

I can't believe anyone (other than me ...LOL) still listens to Nazareth.

I still have fond memories of listening to Hair of the Dog as the first music played through a set of DIY speakers powered by a Leach amp.

Guess I should be happy to even remember the 70's.

Sorry, back on topic..

ajzepp · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 09:12 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha

Quote from: TjMV3
I can't believe anyone (other than me ...LOL) still listens to Nazareth.

I still have fond memories of listening to Hair of the Dog as the first music played through a set of DIY speakers powered by a Leach amp. Guess I should be happy to even remember the 70's.

Sorry, back on topic..

LOL!

Bill Baker · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Feb 2006, 09:30 pm »

Quote

I can't believe anyone (other than me ...LOL) still listens to Nazareth.

Nazareth is the first CD I ever purchased. I was working third shift in a large department store in my teen years and was tired of listening to the radio all night. So... I bought this CD and threw it into one of the "systems", Sparkomatic? Emerson? or some crap like that. We had to take the system down and throw it in the back room within an hour. It seems those speakers couldn't handle it and they started rattling really bad.

By the way, I also still listen to DEVO which was the first concert I ever attended. It was at the Platium in NYC. I was about 13. I didn't know what pot was back then but I was stoned by time the concert was over.

avahifi · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 12:29 am »

For those of you who have not yet heard a Fet Valve Ultra 350 or 550, I can first reassure you that it still makes bad CD enjoyable. Even the early Beatles CDs sound astonishingly good, the lads seem to come alive in my room. You can listen past the bad recording techniques easily.

The reasons is not that the amplifier somehow mutes off the nasty bright edges, the reason is that the amplifier's bandwidth is so high and internal transient overload capacity is so high that it, unlike most amps, does not get into trouble on the "nasties" fed into it and distort them even further and spit out more nasties than went in. It is really really nice to have eliminated silibant "s" sounds making one cringe.

So we keep what the amp did best, and extended its reach into inner detail and space of imaging, and more.

We think you will like it.

Now just try a new Transcendence Eight vacuum tube preamp with it, and for tube system lovers, you will have glowfet heaven.

Frank Van Alstine

Bill Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 01:52 am »

Quote

the reason is that the amplifier's bandwidth is so high

BRAVO. I wish more companies would stop limiting bandwidth in their designs. Some of the best designs I have heard were of extended bandwidth.
Limiting bandwith is a bandaid. If the original design is done properly, no bandaid is required.

skrivis · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

Nazareth is the first CD I ever purchased. I was working third shift in a large department store in my teen years and was tired of listening to the radio all night. So... I bought this CD and threw it into one of the "systems", Sparkomatic? Emerson? or some crap like that. We had to take the system down and throw it in the back room within an hour. It seems those speakers couldn't handle it and they started rattling really bad.

By the way, I also still listen to DEVO which was the first concert I ever ...

My first CDs were Dark Side of Moon and a couple of Telarc classical recordings. (Have to support lcoal companies.)

My first album that I purchased was Tommy and Woodstock was the second.

I saw Devo at a local bar. (I grew up in Akron.)

skrivis · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 03:27 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

Quote
the reason is that the amplifier's bandwidth is so high

BRAVO. I wish more companies would stop limiting bandwidth in their designs. Some of the best designs I have heard were of extended bandwidth.
Limiting bandwith is a bandaid. If the original design is done properly, no bandaid is required.

I think that extended bandwidth is a good idea, but you still may have to limit it. There aren't any circuits that will do zero to xrays. You also don't want crud going in or coming out that isn't music.

On the other hand, good phase response seems to require that any limiting be done far away from what we can actually hear.

skrivis · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 03:36 pm »

Quote from: avahifi

For those of you who have not yet heard a Fet Valve Ultra 350 or 550, I can first reassure you that it still makes bad CD enjoyable. Even the early Beatles CDs sound astonishingly good, the lads seem to come alive in my room. You can listen past the bad recording techniques easily.

The reasons is not that the amplifier somehow mutes off the nasty bright edges, the reason is that the amplifier's bandwidth is so high and internal transient overload capacity is so high that it, unlike most amps, does not ...

Is the amp more critical in this respect because of the external load it must drive? In other words, where is an FV product best applied when you have a signal chain composed of OmegaStar equipment or other brands of equipment?

I certainly have noticed that some recordings played on my system (all OmegaStar) have enough sibilance to kill. Other recordings (Telarc is always a good example) are completely liquid, involving, and fatigue-free.

I don't think I'm seeing a limitation of digital, because the best recordings are so good. I've also found that vinyl has enough distortion to be tiring too. (And that doesn't go away, good recording or not.)

avahifi · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Feb 2006, 08:45 pm »

I suspect that an Ultra SL preamp and Fet Valve Ultra amp would do away with that last bit of sibilance. If one or the other, start with the preamp, its really hard to get the last bit of that out of an all solid state preamp.

Frank