[2bigears]

i think i am going to try a set of VSA jr's only because for the 3k+- on the used market,what can match these.i think driven by the VAC30/30 sig they should sound allright....i hope the sound is warmer than my old b&w 802 matrix s3      

[tvad4]

Deleted.

[audiojerry]

When I auditioned the Wind Rivers, they didn't sound unpleasant, but the mid-bass sounded a bit lazy, over-emphasized, and drowned out the details in the treble region. I listened to them in an audition room at Symphony Sound in Chicago with a couple of SS amps and a tube amp. The tube amp exacerbated the problem. Other speakers in that room did not have that characteristic. They might work well in a system that tends to sound lean.

No offense intended, just a differing viewpoint.

[2bigears]

do VAS make an SE version of the 4jr,which have 16hz-40khz,this would be their latest vintage????      

[zybar]

Why? For starters, the VR4 Gen III go from 16hz-40khz (+/- 3dB), whereas the VR4 Jr go from 20hz-25khz (-6db).

I am not questioning which model is better, but I really doubt it is because one model goes to 16Hz and one goes to say 25Hz.

I do agree with Audiojerry that I wasn't very impressed with the Reimer speakers.  The drivers didn't integrate well, the bass was uncontrolled and wooly, and frankly they didn't hold my interest at all.  

Yet another opinion in a sea of them...

George

[SWG255]

A good audiophile buddy of mine has the VR-4 Jr.'s with a McCormack DNA-250, C-J Premier 17 & Evo-1 phono preamp, Kusman (sp) TT and arm with a Dynavector cartridge,  and a McCormack UDP-1. The speakers really rock, look nice, and can be placed very close to the side walls in his room. In fact, they sound best at least nine feet apart, even if that distance puts them virtually up against the side walls. They don't sound right with any amount of toe-in, and if they are less than nine feet apart.  

I have no trouble recommending these, especially for rock recordings. They do require some break-in, and the bass is much improved by loading the woofer enclosure with shot as recommended by Von Schweikert.

In regard to buying speakers unheard, I'd recommend that if you're thinking about investing a couple thousand dollars or more on speakers, and you cannot hear any of them locally, spend two or three hundred dollars on air fare and a motel and take a weekend trip to a city where you can. It makes for a nice little vacation, and it might save you a great deal of aggrevation, especially if one or other of the speakers you audition really turn you off.

[2bigears]

thks SWG255,the closest dealer to me is 2000 miles away.i really would like to hear these before the buy but i can't.the reading and threads on the 4jr are all quite positive so i would like to give them a go.i can get a brand new latest model for 2700.the only concern i have is the sound to analytical or cold.i really hope they are more on the musical side and all will be well.i also hope it mates well with the VAC30/30.in the hi-fi world you really don't get to pick from a big list at under 3k for speakers.      

[gstraley]

I agree with you AudioJerry,
  When I heard the Riemer Wind River GS's at Symphony Sound in Chicago,  I like you thought that something was wrong with those speakers. I even brought my own integrated amp with me to SS so that I could maybe get a better handle how the speakers sound. A friend of mine told me that I had to really hear these speakers. When I brought another buddy from the Audio club that I am in with me to hear them, he thought that they did not sound good also. I believed in the guy that told me they were a good speaker so I decided to take them home for a  demo. I first brought them over to a friends house that has a pair of Dunlavy SC IV's. The Dunlavy's were a Sterophile Class A speaker. I figured that would be a good reference for a comparision.  I placed the speakers right in front of the Dunlavy's and could hear right away how the Riemer's disappeared better than the Dunlavy's. You could easily hear how slow the Dunlavy's were compared to the Wind River GS's. The Dunlavy's only advantage was the wall of sound and total bass energy that the 4 ten inch woofers and 2 feet taller speakers had over the Reimer's 4 eight inch woofers. I knew from talking with Rick Riemer that those speakers did not have the current wire inside of them. I decided after comparing them to the Dunlavy's that they were a better speaker and that I could improve them by rewiring them to the current wire. The same friend from the Audio club that also like you heard them at Symphony Sound mentioned that he could not believe that they were the same speaker that we heard at SS. My feeling is that you cannot rely on what you hear at a dealers show room. You need to take them home and put them in a good room and with your equipment to make a correct evaluation of them.

Gregg

[audiojerry]

I commend you for your perservernce, Greg, for taking the extra step of taking them home. I would have been inclined to write them off based on what I heard in the audition room. Of course, taking them home for me would have been a bit more difficult with a 200 mile round trip.  

Do you now currently own the Wind Rivers?

I think dealers like Symphony Sound and Holm Audio deserve recognition for having a generous home audition policy. Both have given me the opportunity to try numerous components both in the store and at home. I hope they are able to remain successful in the audio business.

2000 miles from the nearest dealer? Where do you live, 2bigears?

[2bigears]

audiojerry,i live in the west part of Canada where stereo gear is hard to find.Toronto is the closest shops with the brands in consideration.anyway,thks all for the feedback and with this i made the plunge;i am hoping the two components i bought fit into the system allready in place.the VAC 30/30 will sit next to Sonic Frontiers Line 2 getting feed from SF CD1,the VAC is replacing a Bryston 4b st.[for sale]the speakers are the latest VR4jr's half broken in replacing B&W 802 Matrix s3 [for sale].the fellow in NY said he was driving Montana WAS speakers with the 32 watt amp,he said the VAC had no trouble moving the 4 -15" woofers in the 1600 pound speakers,holysh-t is all i can say.thanks for the help all,can't wait to hear the new sound!!!!      

[Jon L]

audiojerry,i live in the west part of Canada where stereo gear is hard to find.Toronto is the closest shops with the brands in consideration.anyway,thks all for the feedback and with this i made the plunge;i am hoping the two components i bought fit into the system allready in place.the VAC 30/30 will sit next to Sonic Frontiers Line 2 getting feed from SF CD1,the VAC is replacing a Bryston 4b st.[for sale]the speakers are the latest VR4jr's half broken in replacing B&W 802 Matrix s3 [for sale].the fellow i ...

I have owned VAC 30/30 for many years, which is still one of my very favorite amps among the gazillion I've listened to over the years.  I've also listened to VR4Jr's and Druids fairly critically.  

Yes, VAC30 will drive the VR4Jr's, and you will probably get a very nice, musical sound.  However, I feel you'll miss out on one of the biggest strengths of VR4Jr's, the defined, PRATTY, deep bass disproportionate to cabinet size.  It's my strong belief the VR4Jr needs high-current SS amp for at least the bass module.  Using the VAC on top modules and a good SS amp for bass in passive-biamped system is what you would want (somehow level-match the two amps).  

But if you wanted to just stick with one amp, VAC would go much better with Zu Druids, which are just as musical and capable as VR4Jr's in different presentation.  Druids can be bought cheaper used as well.  You do need to pay attention to noise through the high-efficiency speakers like Zu b/c VAC's circuit is very high gain with very high input impedance(100K).  A very quiet preamp or very clean passive attentuators will be put to good use here.

[2bigears]

thks Jon,i think the 4jr's are on there way via ups.if the bass is not up to par,this will need to be addressed some how.i got the 4's for a good price, so that helps.thks for the advice.      

[woodsyi]

Yes, VAC30 will drive the VR4Jr's, and you will probably get a very nice, musical sound.  However, I feel you'll miss out on one of the biggest strengths of VR4Jr's, the defined, PRATTY, deep bass disproportionate to cabinet size.  It's my strong belief the VR4Jr needs high-current SS amp for at least the bas ...

I was wondering about that.  4ohm load for the woofers and 89dB sensitivity overall had me thinking 32 watts of low damping tube power may be a bit of  stretch for the woofers.  A good SS on the bottom should be good.  The picture looked like there was some kind of attenuator on the crossover control (?) to facilitate biamping but I don't really know.

[audiojerry]

Well Zbi,
Looks like you will be changing a couple of very good components with a couple of other very good components. Your Sonic Frontiers gear is very good, too. Canucks make some pretty good stuff, eh?    I own some myself (Classe transport)

I've auditioned and liked the Bryston 7BST, and I've owned B&W Matrix 802 and 801. I thought you said you didn't care for the 802, but I personally thought it was a very good design: good bass, good dynamics and power handling, neutral overall sound. I felt the same way about the Bryston.

I also owned the VAC Renaissance 30/30, which almost brought tears to my eyes the first time I listened to it after replacing my SS McCormack DNA 2.0. That tube sound just moved me, and demonstrated to me why I wasn't enjoying music as much when I went to SS.

What was it about the Bryston that caused you to replace it with a VAC?

PS: Unless you really need hard hitting bass, I think the VAC will provide a deep, firm, but nicely rounded bass. If you can appreciate the feel of a nicely rounded derier of a voluptuous female, rather than a lean, rock hard tri-athletic female, you'll know what I'm talking about.  

[mcgsxr]

If you can appreciate the feel of a nicely rounded derier of a voluptuous female, rather than a lean, rock hard tri-athletic female, you'll know what I'm talking about

Uh-oh, guess I need to find a good hybrid amp... cause I love em both!

[2bigears]

audiojerry:i am swappin' the bryston for tube sound.and as far as speakers go,it's just time for a change.tube amps have a rep for sweet mids and that's what i am lookin' for in a system now.on a low budget the real trick is to find a speaker that plays the mids, very well combined with a real bass.it seems speakers that can do this are all around 10k.that tear in the eye story is a good one,i can't wait for the first audition.should have the new gear in a week or so.thks for the insight