[aggielaw]

I had been debating whether to go with a  pair of Def Tech Supercube I's or a Velodyne DD-12 sub, but I can't seem to get away from the rave reviews ACI is getting.  I could buy a pair of Force subs for a little cheaper than a pair of Def Tech Supercube I's.

I'm a little skeptical of down-firing subs, though.  I guess I question how a sub can sound good shooting into the ground.  How would main speakers sound facing the floor?  Not good.  

I'd use the ACI 85Hz filters regardless of the brand of sub I choose, so I don't need (or want) the sub to go much above that for blending purposes.  I also wonder if a pair of Force subs on carpet will fill my 15 x 17 x 12 room with an open side wall.

Can anyone offer advice?  If I go the ACI route I can save a bundle with their free shipping through 12/31, and I can probably get a little better discount this week from the nearest Def Tech retailer (a custom installer, acutally) if I hit him up this week.  

Oh, and then there's the "I've spent hundreds of hours over the last three months doing research and I just want to make the best decision possible and enjoy the darn thing(s)" aspect, too.

For reference, the rest of my system is Cary 303/300 CDP, McCormack RLD-1 and DNA-125 (both Platinum) and nOrh mini 9.0 speakers.

Thanks for your help, all.

Howard

[Folsom]

I have a thought on this... Velodnyes are servo subwoofer (at least the ones I know of), VERY accurate. This sounds like a good thing but the truth is that way to many recordings lack greatly in the subwoofers territory so the result is harsh to listen too. While I can tolerate it, as any thing I really listen to usually is not like that, it can turn you away from some music. Although I will say Rap is the one thing any very accurate subwoofers make sound the worst.

That is my opinion, so depending on what your listening habits are, as I know I find myself listening to many things that do not pride in their recordings, I would probably not want one.

[wowflutter]

I've bought around $50 grand in equipment the past few years for lots of people. I've tried many different subs. The one I always go back to is the Bipolar subs from Mirage. Nothing I've tried comes close to it for it's price. Sure there are Audiophile speakers companies that may make a more musical sub, but your gonna pay dearly for it.
I've tried 2 of the 5 different models that Mirage carries.
I've bought the BPS-150i about 7 times. Very musical, goes deep and cheap in the used market.
I've also bought a few BPS-210's. Again very musical. Goes VERY VERY deep and VERY loud. You may need and external crossover with this one. It doesn't include it.
About 95% of all subs sound like trash on music. This is the best I've heard.
I've mated them with Triangle, Mirage, Energy, Proac, and lots more. It can't be beat.
You may also look at the BPS-100, BPS-400, OM-200

[bubba966]

If you gave me a pair of Def Tech subs I'd sell 'em and buy a decent sub with the $. I've not liked any of the Def Tech's I've heard.

[dwc]

One vote for Hsu Research (VTF-3 mk2) here.
-Dan

[TomS]

I have dual ACI Titan II's in a room 13x19x8 on carpet and would highly recommend them.  They certainly have no problem filling this room at all.  Also, once you've tried stereo subs, it's very addictive.  I never thought I'd even want them until I heard it for myself.

[Levi]

Whichever sub(s) you get, two subs are better than one large one. Check REL Acoustics, they are great for 2ch and 5.1ch application.

[Tweaker]

I'm a little skeptical of down-firing subs, though. I guess I question how a sub can sound good shooting into the ground. How would main speakers sound facing the floor? Not good.

  It is a very sound practice to couple low frequencies to the floor. Keep in mind we're talking low bass here, not mids or highs. That would indeed be a bad idea to face your main speakers to the floor. The output of a sub is augmented by close proximity to nearby surfaces and is usually critical for their performance. Place a sub out in the middle of a room and see what happens to bass response. (Although a downward firing sub would suffer less than a front firing design).  Some of the best performing and most highly regarded subs are downward firing. Hsu Research, VMPS, SVU, ACI, to name a few.
A 15x17x12 is not a huge room. A pair of Force subs in a room that size should have no problems giving you all the bass you could want, and then some.  
One bit of advice. Integrating subs into a system is a very difficult thing to do. I would suugest you look into a digital equalizer like the Behringer DEQ2496 or this guy:
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=processors&product=31.1
to help eliminate what will surely be some serious deviations from a flat resonse below about 100Hz. If those solutions don't appeal to you at least buy a sub that has a continuously variable phase switch to help integrate the sub to the mains. A poorly integrated sub will really bugger up the sound of your main speakers.

[Folsom]

A down firing sub with a crossover so it only plays say sub 50-80 Hz or whatever.... is a good idea. The floor is way to close to EVER get any kind of feedback that would cause cancellation or doubling..... However when pointed in a direction with several feet all the possibilities start to change. That is a concern I would have. I have run into problems with speakers firing into a wall and getting cancellation from the reflected sound. I have even seen two of them that some how hit a wall and then canceled the other one out on the other side of the room, not that I really understand how that happened… Just the right distance I suppose. Hence I think down firing is a good idea for the rather low frequencies. Now if you are running up to 150 HZ (IE you have very small monitors, like computer speaker style) that could have some negative effects on the musical ability of the subwoofers sound where it is in the territory of axis have a place. Granted not many people are going to pick that up and put it on a shelf above their head and aim it down at their face.

Those are just my thoughts on the subject at hand for floor firing. I am a fan of extremely large, hard spider and cone, heavy behemoth subwoofers with insane amplifiers though as well, and not because of SPL. Better controlled subwoofers mean better sound period.

[Kenobi]

Hi,

For music listening, I would recommend the Rocket UFW-12:  http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=8.1  Build and sound quality are top notch and comes w/ free RDES (when available).  Very musical, transparent w/ great pitch definition and fast w/o a trace of overhang or boominess.  Lastly, it blends seemlessly with my mains.

Regards,

Luc

[Charles Calkins]

Pretty darn hard to beat M&K subs. They have been in business for many years and have always made three piece systems. Also their customer service department is outstanding.

                         Cheers
                         Charlie

[konut]

Hi,

For music listening, I would recommend the Rocket UFW-12:  http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=8.1  Build and sound quality are top notch and comes w/ free RDES (when available).  Very musical, transparent w/ great pitch definition and fast w/o a trace of overhang or boominess.  Lastly, it blends seemlessly with my mains.

Regards,

Luc

I've had a UFW-12 for almost 2 months now and love it. I'll admit I haven't auditioned the subs the OP mentioned but I've seen the it compared by some folks on the AV123 forum to a lot of different subs, including some mentioned here, and they have always done very well. You might want to do a search over there. I'll second everything Kenobi said and add that they are the cleanest subs I've ever heard and I've owned servo subs from Velodyne and Sunfire. Clean output to 110db. Customer sevice at AV123 is 2nd to none as well. Watch Out! Shipping weight 137lbs!