CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files

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rahimiv

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« on: 2 Oct 2005, 02:39 pm »
Is there any quality difference between CD-R and origional CD and FLACs? Is there any quality loss when you burn a copy of another CD? I thought FLAC does not hurt quality at all but is that false, that it still takes away a bit of quality?

Russell Dawkins

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #1 on: 2 Oct 2005, 05:26 pm »
Some people say that CDRs can sound better than the CDs from which they were copied, but I've never heard this myself, possibly my system lacks sufficient resolution.
For an"out there" alternative to CDR burning, you might consider this:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue21/cjdiaries.htm
Russell

dogberry

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #2 on: 2 Oct 2005, 07:13 pm »
Garbage in, garbage out.

If you rip to WAV and then burn a CDR, then there's no loss.

If you burned a CDR from MP3s, then sure, there's loss, because MP3s are lossy.

FLACs are lossless files.  You can decompress them back to WAVs.

Jon L

Re: CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #3 on: 2 Oct 2005, 08:07 pm »
Quote from: rahimiv
Is there any quality difference between CD-R and origional CD and FLACs? Is there any quality loss when you burn a copy of another CD? I thought FLAC does not hurt quality at all but is that false, that it still takes away a bit of quality?


All 3 contain the same data/bits, but all 3 do sound a little different.  First of all, Flac sounds different from original CD and CDR just b/c it's played straight from the hard drive, skipping the whole spinning disc and associated problems.  I prefer the hard drive method the best for sound quality.

The brand of CDR used to burn also sound a bit different from each other, which also differ a little from the "original" CD.  I won't say one is better or worse b/c it's subtle differences and sideways type of change.  The amount of difference is akin to difference one hears from using green pens, Auric Illuminator, Vivid, etc on CD's..

gongos

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #4 on: 2 Oct 2005, 08:40 pm »
I've done a lot of comparison between all of these. FLAC and wav sound exactly the same. The most, or least, I can say about CD-Rs is that different brands sound a little bit different from other brands--not better or worse just different. It's not worth your time or energy to experiment between CD-Rs. For the best quality go for FLAC or wav straight from the hard drive.

rahimiv

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #5 on: 4 Oct 2005, 02:06 am »
Quote from: gongos
I've done a lot of comparison between all of these. FLAC and wav sound exactly the same. The most, or least, I can say about CD-Rs is that different brands sound a little bit different from other brands--not better or worse just different. It's not worth your time or energy to experiment between CD-Rs. For the best quality go for FLAC or wav straight from the hard drive.


Yes but doesnt most PC soundcards have lousy quality??

dogberry

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #6 on: 4 Oct 2005, 11:56 am »
Stock ones, sure, for the most part.  Get yourself a USB soundcard that delivers high fidelity.  There's a few really good ones.  Do a search for which ones people like best.

I don't use one myself, since I have a Squeezebox, otherwise I'd suggest one.

miklorsmith

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #7 on: 4 Oct 2005, 02:04 pm »
In a listening session Sunday at my neighbor's place, he played a bunch of my CD's, then I played some.  Mine have all been copied to CD-R's by Gary Koh's essential technique.  He remarked that mine all sounded better than his, unprompted by me.  I heard the exact same thing.

Russell Dawkins

Gary Koh
« Reply #8 on: 4 Oct 2005, 05:04 pm »
Miklorsmith, could you please expand on the Gary Koh reference? Where do I get more info? A search on AC turned up little.
I wonder if this in any way relates to the process by George Louis mentioned with a link in my post above.
Russell

miklorsmith

CD-R vs origional CD vs FLAC files
« Reply #9 on: 4 Oct 2005, 05:49 pm »
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/

Go to "downloads", then scroll to "In search of Absolute Fidelity. . ."

I e-mailed Mr. Koh several times about this while building my burner rig and he actually invited me to the Genesis factory in Seattle.  A friend and I were treated to great hospitality and incredible sound in what would be considered abysmal acoustic surroundings.

We both were able to easily hear differences between different blank discs.  We didn't do any comparatives between originals vs. blanks but in my listening since then, I find original CD's generally to be characterized by tizzy treble and muddy bass.  I think this is the "digital sound" often complained about, mostly by audiophiles groomed on analog.

Why are hard-drive-based transports gaining popularity?  No jitter.  Why does my Red Wine Audio Monica-2 DAC sound so natural versus my other fantastic player?  (which sounds much better with burned blacks) - My typical nonscientific and unsupported declaration is that jitter is a real problem, ROM drives are unaffected by this, and a burned disc, while containing the same "data" as the original disc, provides a more positive and organized reading surface for your poor CDP which has tremendous responsibilities in "real time" translation.

Now, I haven't been able to reproduce the obvious differences between different blanks that Mr. Koh was in his factory.  Bear in mind, we were listening to $45,000 speakers with excellent equipment.  But, the difference between my blanks and my neighbor's originals was obvious.

I don't know whether a standard computer arrangement would give the same results.  My rig is pretty similar to the one described in the article, though I haven't ponied up for a linear power supply for the burner yet.  I do have a PS Audio power regenerator running the whole operation.  Mr. Koh says this is a critical part of the equation but I haven't done comparisons with and without.

I would guess that a well-burned CDR will provide a lot of the same benefits that hard-drive players will.  In the next couple months, I'll have a Squeezebox 2 to start playing to confirm this hypothesis.

Once my new speakers come, I'll start some A/B comparisons.  I might even endeavor to do some blind though I've found subjecting myself to a testing environment strips the differences that reappear when I quit thinking so hard.

If people are generally interested in this and have some particular comparisons they'd like to see done I'd be happy to consider and report.  And, anybody wanting to give it a whirl at my place in Seattle is always welcome to drop by and check it out.