Any TacT owners using Vinyl?

Carlman · « **on:** 11 Jul 2005, 01:38 am »

I'm investigating some options in changing my system... I love the DK Design Integrated I'm using now. I especially like the combo of Dynavector 10x5 -> Eastern Electric Phono Pre -> DK Integrated. This combination is everything musical to my ears. I am currently saving up for the EE phono pre.

However... a situation has come along where I can possibly get a TacT integrated that can be used with room correction. This is something new (from TacT) and I'm going to have to try it.

However, regardless of how good the TacT gear is with my audio PC, how good is it with vinyl? I really hate the idea of buying an analog to digital converter for vinyl... but to use the TacT gear with analog sources, one must... it's a purely digital piece.

I'd appreciate any comments from people who have heard vinyl on a TacT.

Thanks,
Carl

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jul 2005, 04:48 am »

Gee Carl...no replies ? I think most of the TACT owner's use cd's or a pc as their source. Would it make any sense to keep a 2nd. setup...amp, preamp, and phono stage to play your vinyl ?

Chris[/list:u]

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jul 2005, 10:14 am »

I hope to get back into vinyl sometime in the near future.

I am hopeful that the benefits of the room correction will outweigh having to do the A to D to A conversion.

George

RichardS · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jul 2005, 01:19 pm »

Can't comment specifically on the vinyl, as I'm presently digital-only, but I've used the A-D coverter in the Tact with SACD (analog out) and it definitely was missing some of the expected magic that SACD can provide, when compared to the CD layer going digital direct.

Room correction was applied in both instances. However, comparing CD in bypass (without room correction) to SACD with RC, I preferred the SACD. Since I don't have an analog preamp/amp I couldn't compare the SACD with and without the A-D converter, though.

When I use the A-D from my HT preamp with Satellite music or movies, it sounds pretty good and I don't seem to be missing much. Expectations here are different, though.

So...I suppose the losses are minor but real, and I think whether or not the detriments outweigh the benefits will likely depend on how bad your room is--and therefore how much you gain with room correction vs. the losses in the A-D converter--and whether you plan to listen to vinyl significantly more than CD.

Here's what KR had to say in Stereophile about the A-D in the (previous generation) Tact 2.0:
"An FM or vinyl signal passed through the TacT with room correction bypassed sounded quite good, but there was a consistent and small loss of detail, along with an overall brighter sound, than when I fed those sources directly into the Line-3....Overall, the influence of the TacT's ADC was greater than and swamped the differences among the DACs. Nonetheless, it was not so obtrusive as to prevent the TacT from being used effectively for room correction with analog sources."

From what I've heard from others, the newer A-Ds are significantly improved, though.

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jul 2005, 01:43 pm »

I am soon to find this out for myself with the DEQX. I still have a vinyl rig. My hope is like George's, that the gains of room correction (and digital xo's) will outweigh the added conversion stage.

I theorize the limiting factor *may* be the ADC. I have heard it said before that an ADC is more critical in execution than a DAC. I was looking at maybe acquiring an Apogee Mini ME down the road if the digitization of vinyl falls flat. I am weighing this option and also what Chris said about keeping a seperate rig for vinyl. Who knows what I'll do at this point, it is too early and I have too many things to finish.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jul 2005, 03:36 pm »

I think Ted_B decided to send back his DEQX because of its underachieving with his vinyl collection. You may want to contact him about his impressions.

I have found the TacT DAC module to be quite capable, but have no experience with the ADC module as my system is redbook only. My transport actually offers hi-res digital output for DVD-A but alas only with a Meridian processor.

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Jul 2005, 04:39 pm »

Thanks for the replies... I will find out for myself this afternoon and through the next week or so. My ever-generous dealer (Hometheaterdoc) is bringing the TacT 2.2x, TacT 2150 amp, a Butler 2250, and Nuforce amps today to play around with.

I have no doubts the TacT for my Audio PC will be great. I've heard it so there's not a big mystery there. My curiosities about how the Butler and Nuforce amps will also be satisfied.

My end goal is to use a TacT 2150 that has a (not yet released) add-on card where you set the curve(s) with some dealer-owned piece of gear. Then, the card has the curve settings on the 2150 you can enjoy... I'm guessing I'd have the usual 1-6 curve settings from the remote. The 2150 would be my new integrated at this point with room correction... and I wouldn't deal with changing curves again until something changed... which is perfect for my needs.

I didn't specifically analyze the 2150 amp last time it was at my house. It did nothing wrong but I need to hear it again to make this decision.

ekovalsky · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Jul 2005, 06:38 pm »

Quote from: Carlman

Thanks for the replies... I will find out for myself this afternoon and through the next week or so. My ever-generous dealer (Hometheaterdoc) is bringing the TacT 2.2x, TacT 2150 amp, a Butler 2250, and Nuforce amps today to play around with.

I have no doubts the TacT for my Audio PC will be great. I've heard it so there's not a big mystery there. My curiosities about how the Butler and Nuforce amps will also be satisfied.

My end goal is to use a

Carlman,

There is software you can download for free called TACS that lets you feed the RCS correction filter into the 2150, so the room correction is performed in the amp itself. It is very neat once you figure out how to use it!

[url]http://www.dirac.fr/tacs/index.asp

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 06:37 pm »

Just an update that I haven't done anything.. yet... Of the 2 pieces of TacT gear I've been demo'ing, neither has the analog card.. but I'll be getting one soon.

As to the TACS software, I haven't downloaded it yet either... but if I really can use that to measure the room and store curves on the 2150, that'd be cool. I only have 1 2150, running 1 pair of speakers, though. I'm not doing crossovers, subs, etc.. So, a lot of what that software does would not apply to my situation.

I don't see how the TACS will allow me to use various room corrections yet just by looking at the 2150's interface... but there is a new 2150x that's coming out that has it built-in.... for a few hundred bucks, I think it'd be easier to work with for me... We shall see...

-C

Mark_H · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Aug 2005, 02:57 pm »

I have tried passing my vinyl through my TacT. Results - non-transparent A/D conversion which robs the vinyl of it's sense of air so at this stage I do not digitize my vinyl.

Turtnable: Michel Orbe Millenium, Koetsu Red Signature cartridge.

Perhaps with a better external A/D it can be done.

Mark

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Aug 2005, 05:16 pm »

Thanks for your feedback, Mark. Circumstances have still not allowed me to try vinyl through a TacT. However, I would expect my results to be similar... unfortunately.

I've been considering going with a Tact preamp, and using that for digital, and keeping my DK integrated paired with the Eastern Electric Minimax phono for the vinyl rig.

However, I will try to get the record player to sound good through the TacT first... vinyl is secondary in real-world listening for me. I love it when I have time to dedicate to it... but finding music I like on records in good condition, storing and caring for them... and cleaning and aligning the table... etc., etc., is like having another hobby... which takes away listening time. I've flirted with the idea of abandoning vinyl... now that the Audio PC gets me within 98% of the vinyl rig sound. But my wife said no!

Very unusual that she has any preference about hifi...

Thanks and hope to have more listening time soon...

-C

Mark_H · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Aug 2005, 06:04 pm »

Vinyl has now also taken a back seat for me due to room-correction. Once you live with it, it is very difficult to listen to music without it... and as I will not currently digitize my vinyl I have a problem...

The TacT units work internally at 92kHz so the ideal solution would be an external A/D working at 92kHz sampling and delivering the digital stream to the TacT. *If* the external A/D could digitize transparently 92kHz should be more than adequate to capture the vinyl "sound".

Mark