Tubes

Carlman · « **on:** 1 Apr 2003, 11:12 pm »

I have 2 questions I hope someone here can answer:
1. How can you tell when tubes are going bad? Do they get noisier?
2. Where's a good place to buy good ones?

I have Amperex Bugle Boy's made in Holland now. They were in my Audible Illusions 2-D when I bought it a few years ago and were probably in there for a while before I bought it. They sound pretty much like they did when I bought it but, they ring if I barely tap the preamp and they seem to have a good bit of hiss.... especially on the phono. I know some of this is normal but, I don't know how much is too much.

I'm going to try and do some tests from AI's website but, just thought I'd ask here if anyone knew a good way to describe how to tell when tubes are getting past their peak.

Thanks,
Carl

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 04:27 am »

Carlman,

If the noise is coming from only one channel, switch the tubes around in the sockets if you are equipped with two tubes in the AI2. If the noise now eminates from the opposite side after switching, you got a tube problem.

Alot of things could go wrong with any pieces of equipment, but 60% or more of time a well made piece of tube equipment has problems that are tube related, not gear related.

If you simply don't like the sound...you could try tube 'rolling' (buying new ones) or, maybe, you don't like the sound of teh equipment or tube gear, in general.

Yes, tubes get noticeably noiser as they age...they soften a bit in dynamics before you hear alot of noise though. There are lots of tubes out there to be bought from reputatble vendors...and if the Ai takes 12AX7's, you have a world of good choices, including some pretty good ones in brand new Sovtek 12AX7LPS. I've seen them for as little as $8 per and I've heard raves for them. Just do a search on your fave engine and you'll find lots of choices.

Phono will show up and ampify noisy (and or old) tubes the most as it is amplifed many more times in Phono vs. Linestages.

Hope this helps a wee bit. Enjoy.

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 05:26 pm »

Thanks for the tips and info, Chairman...

The noise I hear is in both channels. There's nothing particularly 'bad' about it, just that it's got a lot of noise and a lot of ringing if I tap it.

I called AI and spoke to a real know-it-all type... he said I shouldn't be using the BBoy tubes... yet, on their site it says they are one of the best. Go figure. They recommend Russian military tubes that they have matched and graded for $35/each. I have a friend who has used Russian tubes and said they sounded like Russia.... cold and gray. However, they weren't the same as what AI is selling.

In any case, I'll keep looking... Any suggestions for good 6922 tubes are appreciated.

-Carl

doug s. · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 05:40 pm »

decent toob stores:

http://tubeman.com/
they have cryo toobs, too...

http://vacuumtubes.com/

http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/tubesoundperf.html

btw, ai pre's are known to be especially noisy...

doug s.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 05:58 pm »

Carlman,

I have a PAS-4 preamp and it too uses the 6922/6DJ8 type tube.

I am not sure, but I think Upscale Audio (www.upscaleaudio.com) supplies Audible Illusions with their NOS (new, yet old stock) tubes. Upscale is one of AI's largest retailers and brings in hordes of NOS tubes yearly. Check out their website...Wayne is the very informative owner there.

BTW, I bought two Russian military 6H23 (equivalent to 6922/6DJ8 apparently) Rocket logo tubes from Upscale for....$25.00 each. I think you are just looking at AI markup at $35.00 on what might be the same tube stash. They are very nice sounding...a nice upgrade from the Sovtek 6922's I had in there before. Bass better, a bit less strident, fuller soundstage than before. However, I thought the cheapo $8 Sovtek was great for the money...especially when I damped the tube with a little tophat full of mortite rope caulk. Has improved every tube I've ever used it on...your resutls and experience will vary based on your hearing likes an dislikes

Anyhow, call Wayne if you'd like - he'll set you up and straight.

Beezer · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 06:33 pm »

Kevin Deal is also very helpful at Upscale. I have the AI M3A and am currently using Amperex 6922 tubes and they sound great. The 6922 are a more rugged military version of the 6DJ8 family. I've also used Tungsol 6922 with good success. Also, you might be able to tame those micrphonics with tube dampers. Herbie's Audio, a manufacturer on this site, sells some that I use and other folks seem to like.

Beez

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Apr 2003, 11:54 pm »

Crud - for some reason I had Wayne on da' brain. It's Kevin at Upsclae that is so helpful. Beez got it right....

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Apr 2003, 01:13 am »

Carlman,
I have a pair or more of the Philips JAN tubes that came with my Ah! CD player. I rolled in Amperex Globes that I prefer, so I don't think I'll be using the Philips. If you'd like them, PM me; even if you don't end up using them, at least they might help diagnose whether your BB's are giving up the ghost (s).

BTW, regarding Kevin Deal, I've bought several BAT pieces from him & my CDP; several people complained elsewhere that he's blunt and curt (rather than helpful). That HASN'T been my experience though he's pressed for time enough that he CAN'T be sociable in his business dealings.

Carlman · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Apr 2003, 03:05 am »

Tonto, thanks for the offer... I've got a couple of old NOS Sylvania's to use for testing. They're from the 50's or 60's I think... they have black and yellow boxes. I bought them a year ago on ebay. I don't know how they test or anything about them.

I think curt and unhelpful would be the words I'd use to describe my call to AI. It was like I was talking to a grumpy old uncle who's tired of everyone trying to change things.

Upscale sounds like a good place to start... Chimera did some mods on it for the previous owner. I applied a little bit of Pro Gold to the contacts of the tubes and have added a better power cord since I've owned it.

I think the only reason I care is that I have a new amp that's really 'amplifying' every little thing.

Thanks a LOT for all the great suggestions.

-Carl

Carlman · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Apr 2003, 02:36 am »

Just a quick update...
I replaced 2 of the tubes with the NOS Sylvania's I had and wow! no ringing, no hiss. I don't know if it's a quality of those tubes or that they were old but, wow what a difference.

The sound changed as well. A tiny bit less lively sounding but, better control, imaging, and nuetrality. Basically, it sounds less colored.

Now, the quest is on for the ultimate tube...

-Carl