[LymphNode]

Hydrogen gas...acid leaks?

[Gordy]

Hi LymphNode,

I've been using SLA's for 14 yrs. without a leak or even meaningful corrosion on the terminals.  I love 'em!!!  They're used in Mazda Miata's etc. because the battery is installed in an air tight trunk and they can be operated in any position...  no leakage.  Disposal is another matter, lead is toxic to the environment and must be handled in accordance with OSHA regs...  Your local auto repair shop could clue you in on if they'll recycle 'em for you...  hth!

Gordy

[MonkeyK]

I use battery backed power supplies for my home computers.  They all have SLA batteries in them.  

They are probably safe.

[bubba966]

Miata's actually use AGM batteries, not SLA batteries.

But anyway, Sealed Lead-Acid batteries are quite common, and don't leak (I've not heard of or seen any do so). I've replaced quite a few SLA's in UPS's. Some of them were over 10 years old. Other than a little dust on 'em, they were fine.

[LymphNode]

I read more about this, and SLA's are not supposed to be used in an airtight space because of the danger of explosion (hydrogen gas).  Apparently, the degassing is caused by faulty charging.  

I recently changed the battery in my friend's car, and it was bloated/bleeding liquid and was a 'maintenance free' battery that was only two years old.

[Vinnie R.]

I read more about this, and SLA's are not supposed to be used in an airtight space because of the danger of explosion (hydrogen gas).  Apparently, the degassing is caused by faulty charging.  

Hi LymphNode,

You bring up a very good point:

   All, please make sure that you use the charger that comes with your Clari-T-Amp, and ONLY that charger!!!    Using the incorrect charger can result in degassing the SLA battery.

   Also, do not attempt to eat your SLA battery, as this voids your warranty and will result in serious lead poisoning!    

Other than that, enjoy!  

[Gordy]

Also, do not attempt to eat your SLA battery, as this voids your warranty and will result in serious lead poisoning!

Thanks Vinnie, a little late for telling me that now!

[Vinnie R.]

Thanks Vinnie, a little late for telling me that now!

Did you eat the ones I put in your P-3A DAC?  If you are too sick to listen, can I have your DAC?  

[Gordy]

That would be a P-3B now   With only a little over 100 hrs. on the new BG caps I'm not ready to make an evaluation other than     or maybe    However, the craftsmanship is superb, thank you Vinnie!  That makes two silly ideas of mine that have worked out exceedingly well.  2 outta 27 isn't bad, is it?

[Occam]

The only prophylactic precaution I know of to protect oneself against the pernicious effects of SLA batteries is to cover oneself in melted butter. Unfortuneately, it also tends to attract rampaging lobsters.

[Gordy]

Mmmmmm, lobster.  Tastes just like battery.

[konut]

If you're worried about that, you might also want to remove all the water taps from your house. I'm sure you're aware that one can drown on as little as a tablespoon full of water.

[Dmason]

If you wash your hands in butter before handling batteries, you will be safe. True, lobsters are attracted to butter. They have very powerful and dangerous pincers which could break a person's finger, or result in severe laceration. I would recommend avoiding battery use altogether. A car equipped with a standard transmission can be easily started if parked on an incline when engaging the clutch into second or third gear, making battery use nonessential, and therefore safer motoring.

[EDS_]

Any lead acid battey will produce some hydrogen at the negative plate(s) and oxygen at the positive plate(s) during charging.


SLAs are sealed to keep the acid, water, hydrogen, oxygen and other gases in. An overly discharged battery will not accept a charge properly ergo it might "cook". That is the chemical reaction between the grids (lead) and the water and acid can't happen and the battery overheats-puts out lots of gas and the cell cover ruptures-sending gases into the air.




Things to looks for in a dying SLA battery:
1. Pos. plate growth (generally you can't see this unless you can inspect each cell's pos. and neg. posts)
2. Heats up during charge (more than when newer)
3. Won't hold charge as long
4. Each cell in any LA battery will show about 2-2.2 volts when fully charged. A 12 v. battery has 6 cells so it should measure 12-13.2 or so volts at full charge. Any battery showing less than 2v per cell charge should be scrapped pronto. It may well ruin your equipment if you use a bad battery.
5. If you can measure cells individually, look for a delta of .04 volts at full charge any more and you've got a bad cell or more and the battery could crap out at any time.

[-Richard-]

Thanks EDS for the information...

Living with technology as we do makes it seem at times
as if we are immune to its negative effects...but unfortunately
we are susceptible to many kinds of ill effects of a great deal
of the technology that we take for granted...

So asking questions about technology...in this case batteries...
that we may not be completely familiar with is smart IMHO...
and helpful...

I would love to see this country go from fossil fuels to Hydrogen
Cell technology...you can drink the water that is emitted from the
exhaust...no kidding...but we are stuck in the old paradigm of
using petroleum...all we need is leadership that would be
willing to make the shift mandatory with liberal credits given
to every company or individual that commits to the Hydrogen
Cell technology for their cars, homes and so on...tax breaks for
the companies that do the R and D...

One way or the other...kicking and screaming or moving fluidly
and intelligently we are all going to adapt Hydrogen Cell technology
sooner or later...and that means living with batteries...

So we might as well start now to learn everything we can about how
to live with them safely with attentiveness...

Warm regards -Richard-

[EDS_]

Thanks EDS for the information...

Living with technology as we do makes it seem at times
as if we are immune to its negative effects...but unfortunately
we are susceptible to many kinds of ill effects of a great deal
of the technology that we take for granted...

So asking questions about technology...in this case batteries...
that we may not be completely familiar with is smart IMHO...
and helpful...

I would love to see this country go from fossil fuels to Hydrogen
Cell technology...you ca ...

I like the spirit of your words. The problem is hydrogen fuel cells are huge net energy losers. Meaning if one adds the number of BTUs needed to make the unit in the first place and the BTU value of ongiong fuel needed for operation.........fuel cells are a terrible loser, at least for now (certainly fuel cell R&D should continue and grow).

Further, if one wants to burn hydrogen directly.................the only way to get enough, without the costs being astronomical, is through fossil fuels.

The best short term partial answer is natural gas. Another is nuclear.
Another might be bio diesel, however, bio diesel might prove very expensive.

I'd like to see the US study methane hydrate gathering. The sea-floors contain enough to power the world for at least 1,000 years.

I really like Honda's compressed natural gas Civic. As I understand these things are only available in San Diego, so far as the US goes.



Killing the Super Collider looks more and more like the biggest US governmental srew-up in a long while.

[Dmason]

I have a friend who is a reservoir engineer for Petro-Canada, who claims the Feds there are not ignoring methane hydrate at all, as apparently there are enormous deposits in Queen Charlotte Sound, and off the Grand Banks. They plan on mining it once the recovery technology is in place and have a better understanding of the environmental impact. Their biggest customer will be their neighbors to the south, and the hope is to be the early exporter of the associated technologies. P-Can has already purchased leases for this. ETA: ten years. Let's hope so because they are currently the biggest exporter to the States, and their existing fields are being drawn down fast. Good news, word is there is enough methane under Alberta alone to power the G-7 countries for 100 years.

[Gordy]

Perhaps nuclear batteries are relatively close as well?   http://www.livescience.com/technology/050513_new_battery.html

[Vinnie R.]

Perhaps nuclear batteries are relatively close as well?   http://www.livescience.com/technology/050513_new_battery.html

Hmmmm, a Betavoltaic Clari-T-Amp!    

[-Richard-]

Several years ago my wife and I taught at the
Rishi Valley School in India...a very high academic
boarding school that housed 300 students from the
first through the 12 grade...or standard as they say
in India...still based on the British model...

This was a very rural area in India...surrounding the
school are villages that are still operating as they did
over 10,000 years ago...their normal mode of transportation
is still the beautiful and majestic white Buffalo pulling wooden
carts..the villagers live in mud and straw homes and use the urine
from the Buffalo's to disinfect their mud floors...no electricity...

Our school had electricity but only for certain hours....we relied
on battery power when it was properly charged...

The school kept perhaps 40 cows and used the dung from the
cows and plant debris to produce a very generous amount of
methane gas which was used for a variety of energy needs...

Methane gas fueled the huge kitchen for example which fed
the students and faculty of 80+ teachers 3 times a day...and
served many other uses...I was very impressed with their system...

We are talking about an extremely fuel depleted area of India...
few forest areas exist because of the extensive cutting of trees
over hundreds of years...so the methane is a vital renewable
resource that is relatively easy to make, maintain and gather...

I do not have all the facts about Hydrogen Cell technology...
However my understanding is that it uses water to extract
the hydrogen with a soap-like material as the catalist, and
recycles the water in a "closed" system...

Naturally some of the water would be used up in this process
and would need to be replaced...also some form of fuel other
than hydrogen would be necessary to "initiate" the "process"...

Of course a serious amount of further R and D would be necessary
to perfect this system...under FDR it would have already been done...
one year of a full all out push...as if we were "really" living in a war
period...with the kind of urgency that life and death situations creates...

Well...it is life and death...WW 2 for example was a war based in large part
on the rush to see who would dominate the fossil fuel resources of the world...
this has been well documented...

But the use of petrol is placing the earth in a very dangerous over-heated
condition which is warming the poles...already a wobble has been introduced
in the earth's rotation which many scientists find extremely alarming...

Earth changes are coming...and 2012 may just be the beginning...let's get the
hell off petrol...let the middle east calm down...bring the soldiers home...
and let America do what it does best...invent...innovate...create a new
world...without disease, poverty and suffering...let's start to export
democracy again...instead of the old 19th century imperialism...
I am a bit impatient to see things move...let's create an earth friendly
technology...the time is right!

Warm regards -Richard-