[serlvz]

There is no shortage of people willing to rhapsodize about the qualities of the M225. And that is great and as it should be.When a piece of equipment scratches that itch so well, fills that need so well and hits the spot, it should be raved about. It is concerning to me that I don't see hardly any mention, in threads, of the M750. The M225 apparently is a very special amp; is this not the case with 750?

It has been out for a while. I can usually glean info from people's posts about a product. But with the M750 there just isn't that much out there. Is it just that so few are out there? People are too busy listening to them they don't have the time to post about them?

As a potential purchaser of them it is somewhat disconcerting I don't hear more. No news is not necessarily good news. Am I making a mistake going down this road. Yes, there is the 30 day satisfaction guarantee, but I'd rather not deal with that. I'd rather be more comfortable about purchasing an item, heading in.


I have questions. For instance, with the M225 I understand that the amps operate in Class A for the first 20W or so. What is the Class A bias with the 750's? Daniel? What did the M750 bring to an owner's table that their previous amp(s) didn't?

I'd love to hear people's experience with these amps. I am an owner of a Vision SET 400 and absolutely love it and how music sounds coming through it. I purchased it to power some older ( 40+ years ), reconditioned B&W 801(s) and it made those speakers sing beautifully. However, I have since purchased some top of the line Revels ( well, discontinued now ) and from everything I've read on these, they love power. The Vision SET amp also powers these well, but y'all know how it is ( I think? ) I want more. Seems like I'm always wanting to crank them up. More. Hence, my interest in the 750(s).

[peter4jc]

Purely speculation on my part; as a DM225 owner (love them) I imagine they fill the power requirements for the vast majority, and think you're correct that they would outsell the DM750 because of that beast's lower demand.

You might try calling Frank (he seems to enjoy answering questions over the phone) to see how similar the 225's sound to the 750's and then assume with all the raves we hear about the 225's the same would hold true for the 750's.

My speakers are rated at 90dB and I've never come close to pushing the 225's.  I get your idea about having more than enough power, but I'd also pick Frank's brain about how the 225's would match your speakers - they may just pack plenty of ooomph.

[morganc]

I’d love to hear the answer as well.  I own 225s and have considered demoing the 750s to compare.  I have a huge space and the 225s do run out of gas a couple times a year when I crank ‘em up. 

[Dart87]

Hello Serlvz,

I started a thread on this forum a few weeks ago with questions about a proper power amp and in the end I purchased a pair of the M750s.  I am still working on my system and have discovered a couple weak links in the chain.  But it is NOT the M750s!  They are driving power hungry Magnepan 3.7is and as I sit here listening to Telegraph Road...it is sublime.  Crazy how you find you like music that has not appealed to you in the past when you hear it through a nice system (I was never a Dire Straits fan but my wife wanted this album recently, I am a fan now).

I am very happy with these amps!

[serlvz]

Hello Serlvz,

I started a thread on this forum a few weeks ago with questions about a proper power amp and in the end I purchased a pair of the M750s.  I am still working on my system and have discovered a couple weak links in the chain.  But it is NOT the M750s!  They are driving power hungry Magnepan 3.7is and as I sit here listening to Telegraph Road...it is sublime.  Crazy how you find you like music that has not appealed to you in the past when you hear it through a nice system (I was never a Dire Straits fan but my wife wanted this album recently, I am a fan now).

I am very happy with these amps!

Thank you for your input. Glad to hear it.     Yeah, that album is a sonic party! Love it!

[serlvz]

I’d love to hear the answer as well.  I own 225s and have considered demoing the 750s to compare.  I have a huge space and the 225s do run out of gas a couple times a year when I crank ‘em up.

Thanks for chimng in, Morgan. My listening space is pretty large as well. It is 25 x16. I have the speakers on the long wall side, so as to have plenty of room to minimize reflections from the side. Not too far behind my listening position is another 10 x 30 open space. So a lot of cubic feet! The Vision SET 400 I'm using sounds real good, but from what I understand my new-ish speakers absolutely love power. So I get to a little past 12 o'clock on the dial of the preamp. and yeah it is loud but not nearly as clean as it is @ 10 or 11. I keep wanting to crank it more, but... Also, I wonder how the 750 sounds at lower volumes, too. I'm not all about cranking things up. LOL  "Even in the quietest moments..." 

[serlvz]

Purely speculation on my part; as a DM225 owner (love them) I imagine they fill the power requirements for the vast majority, and think you're correct that they would outsell the DM750 because of that beast's lower demand.

You might try calling Frank (he seems to enjoy answering questions over the phone) to see how similar the 225's sound to the 750's and then assume with all the raves we hear about the 225's the same would hold true for the 750's.

My speakers are rated at 90dB and I've never come close to pushing the 225's.  I get your idea about having more than enough power, but I'd also pick Frank's brain about how the 225's would match your speakers - they may just pack plenty of ooomph.

Thanks for your thoughts, Peter. I used to have these oddball, but very good Infinitys; the Prelude Compositions P-FR. I ran them using a 100W/channel tube amp and they filled this large space. Easily. They were rated at 96dB, though. These Revels are pitiful in that area, I believe they are rated at 86dB.

[danielgk]

Here's a little insight about the evolution of the M225 and the M750:

Prior to the SET design (Vision SET 120, Vision SET 120 control amp, DVA M225, and DVA M750) the only bridged mono blocks Audio by VanAlstine made were between 600 - 1000 watts each.  HUGE!  They all sounded great, with something magical coming out of the bridged mono block full differential design.

The M225 was an attempt to get that same magic into a more realistic size for the typical homeowner.  Lower power, smaller physical size, lighter.  By lower power, I mean 225 watts, which is still pretty huge to my 1970's way of thinking.  We hit the mark with a great little amp that was actually light enough to easily move around and ship, while still providing adequate cooling and coming in at a reasonable price while still providing a decent profit margin so AVA could stay in business.

Then came the M750.  To get the "big" version, basically 3 things happened:  The output drive was doubled by adding a second pair of double die mosfet to both the + and - outputs, the internal DC power supply was substantially increased in both current and voltage, and the cooling was increased.  The higher DC voltage allows higher power output but also produces more heat.  The doubling up on the mosfets allows more output drive because the output impedance is cut in half.

Because the M750's output impedance is 1/2 of the M225's, it can drive loads that are twice as difficult (which usually translates into half the ohms).  It also makes the M750 more efficient in that the mosfet "overhead" is only half that of the M225.

This all boils down to the fact that the M225 and M750 sound just about the same, although the M750 may have a SLIGHT edge.  Some people think the M750 sounds better (Frank), others think they sound the same (me), nobody thinks the M750 sounds worse than the M225.  I give my nod to the M225 simply because I know what it is intended for, my homeowners system that has no real need of 750 watts per channel.


Dan

[gene9p]

nobody thinks the M750 sounds worse than the M225. .. WOW

I hope you are not in the sales department as your choice of words is very questionable. If I were Frank I would have a long talk with you about your new career ELSEWHERE.

so how bad do you think the highly acclaimed 225's are?

[JCarney]

nobody thinks the M750 sounds worse than the M225. .. WOW

I hope you are not in the sales department as your choice of words is very questionable. If I were Frank I would have a long talk with you about your new career ELSEWHERE.

so how bad do you think the highly acclaimed 225's are?

Dude, WTF?! Rude, rude, rude. Not cool at all, just because you find his choice of wording not to your liking does not mean others will. If all you have are rude comments, just be quiet. I'm getting real tired of un-necessary, rude, self serving comments from people who have nothing to contribute to the thread they are commenting in. I got after somebody a couple of days ago for something rude said on the speaker circle. What a jerk.

JCarney

[I.Greyhound Fan]

nobody thinks the M750 sounds worse than the M225. .. WOW

I hope you are not in the sales department as your choice of words is very questionable. If I were Frank I would have a long talk with you about your new career ELSEWHERE.

so how bad do you think the highly acclaimed 225's are?

I actually find his honesty about the amps refreshing.  He is basically saying that if you don't need the power, go with the 225's because it sounds the  same as the 750.

[gene9p]

Dude, WTF?! Rude, rude, rude. Not cool at all, just because you find his choice of wording not to your liking does not mean others will. If all you have are rude comments, just be quiet. I'm getting real tired of un-necessary, rude, self serving comments from people who have nothing to contribute to the thread they are commenting in. I got after somebody a couple of days ago for something rude said on the speaker circle. What a jerk.

JCarney

name calling..very grown up J Carney....
I'm so impressed with your superior attitude Mr Carney

[JCarney]

I'm so impressed with your superior attitude Mr Carney
[/quote]

You were a jerk, I just pointed it out. There was no need what so ever to make the comments you made, therefore I called you on it. I do not care what you think about my attitude or anything else.

JCarney

[morganc]

nobody thinks the M750 sounds worse than the M225. .. WOW

I hope you are not in the sales department as your choice of words is very questionable. If I were Frank I would have a long talk with you about your new career ELSEWHERE.

so how bad do you think the highly acclaimed 225's are?

I interpreted his statement as saying that the 750 is as least as good sonically as the 225 and perhaps even better. 

[gene9p]

that may be so but you have to remember when doing any search on Frank's products it leads people here.

You have to be careful what you say..especially an employee. I don't think a Mack employee would be printing The new 6330 amp doesn't sound any worse than the 6200 or a car dealer putting out online that the new Prius isn't any worse than last year's.

I get what you are saying but the statement is poorly written and misleading.

oh and any credibility to this forum gets lost when name calling begins and insults thrown around.
 

[serlvz]

I believe what was said was in the context of a sentence and only one third of it. You have to take it as a part of the complete sentence, and not select one portion of it and blow it up. I read it as people have their preferences, but have no fear, "though you may not have read as much about the 750 as the 225, it is in no way a lesser product."

Damn!

I believe Daniel was trying to be of help. I started the thread looking for a little more info, and possibly a bit of assurance. I was contemplating spending over $5,000 and was anxious as I couldn't seem to find as much info as I'd have liked.

BTW, Daniel, what is the Class A bias with the 750's. I mean the amps operate in Class A for the first 20 W like the M225 or a larger number. Just curious.

At any rate, I've heard enough. Just ordered a pair of 750s an hour or two ago. w00t!

Scott

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Good choice Scott and congrats.  Looking forward to your impressions.

[maxima95]

that may be so but you have to remember when doing any search on Frank's products it leads people here.

You have to be careful what you say..especially an employee. I don't think a Mack employee would be printing The new 6330 amp doesn't sound any worse than the 6200 or a car dealer putting out online that the new Prius isn't any worse than last year's.

I get what you are saying but the statement is poorly written and misleading.

oh and any credibility to this forum gets lost when name calling begins and insults thrown around.

Try as you might gene9p to justify or rationalize what you posted, you were simply wrong and inappropriate.  As previously stated, out of 5 paragraphs of useful, honest information, you seized upon a scintilla of such and went off on a borderline irrational tangent.

You might consider quitting while you are behind.