Need advice from Bryston owners

Nomoretweaks · « **on:** 10 Aug 2004, 10:29 pm »

Hello, Bryston people!
I just upgraded my amplification from a modest (55W regulated PSU) integrated to a mint 2 years old BP25/4BST . After all I heard and read about this amp I was really surprised by the lack of bass in my system now - it is almost completely gone! There is plenty of tight and punchy upper bass, but everything lower is surprisingly shy and recessed. My old integrated had a very controlled and deep bass. I ditched it after being told that my speakers need much more Watts. Now all my familiar records sound shallow, top-heavy and bass-light in comparison. I am unable to find any explanation! Any one has any ideas WHY??? My speakers are ATC SCM 35 - sealed cabinet 3-way floorstanders. They are known to be power-hungry,but not as hungry as other passive ATC models (they are 85dB). That's why I decided to go for Bryston -and now I hear that a 55 W p/ch integrated has more effortless bass!!! Is it some particular lack of synergy or what? I called my dealer and he said that they should work very well together, but apparently they don't.
Please give me some advise, otherwise Bryston will have to go - and I hate it, a used Bryston looked like the best affordable option for my ATC.

jimmyp58 · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Aug 2004, 11:33 pm »

I am not familiar with your speakers (I own Def Techs all around) but my Bryston amps (14B SST & 7B SST) do a wonderful job in all phases of sound, including bass response. My front speakers are not classified as power hungry but they do like power and the 14B SST provides ample bass response --- tight and deep.

Wish I could be of more help.....

Jim

jethro · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 01:30 am »

Perhaps your previous integrated over-emphasised the bass frequencies or chopped the high-frequencies as compared to the BP25/4B-ST combo ? If the high freqs are chopped then the low freqs might become more apparent as with your integrated.

I ran into a similar situation when I went from the 3B-ST to the 4B-ST : the high freqs seemed to be chopped with the 4B-ST and the bass response was increased. I think this was because the 4B-ST handled the low freqs better so the high freqs seemed less apparent. In reality the 4B-ST gave me a flatter response than the 3B-ST.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to listen to your favorites on other systems to get an average feeling for the bass content in the material.

I've been wrong a lot lately, so there's a good chance that this makes no sense.

gravy · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 03:40 am »

Quote from: jethro

Perhaps your previous integrated over-emphasised the bass frequencies or chopped the high-frequencies as compared to the BP25/4B-ST combo ? If the high freqs are chopped then the low freqs might become more apparent as with your integrated.

I ran into a similar situation when I went from the 3B-ST to the 4B-ST : the high freqs seemed to be chopped with the 4B-ST and the bass response was increased. I think this was because the 4B-ST handled the low freqs better so the high freqs seemed less apparent. I ...

I know exactly what you mean Jethro, especially when I moved to much more accurate speakers. I was so "used" to hearing overemphasized bass I thought something was missing. After a little listening, I realized how much easier it was to listen to the music at higher volumes with no distortion.

But I agree with you - I've been wrong plenty of times myself!

ec · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 05:13 am »

Reminds of going to a servo based sub. At first it appeared that I lost a lot of low level omphhh but in actuality I am / was getting less distorted and more controlled bass.

But here is what you can do. Get (Stereophile test CD) or make CD that has freq sweeps from say 20 hz to 500 hz or above and put an spl meter (with any corrections required eg needed for the Radio Shack SPL meter). You should get a flat freq response (well at least in some spots depending on the room). Do this for you old and new combo.

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 12:06 pm »

Hi NOM,

The Bryston is the most LINEAR amplifier you can buy so lack of bass is definitly not the amplifier. Just a thought - make sure the stereo/mono switch on the rear of the amp is in Stereo and of course make sure your speaker connections are in phase.

james

Nomoretweaks · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 12:20 pm »

Thanks, guys. I would not bother you of course if it was just a matter of a different sound balance. My previous amp was Exposure Super XX - it is an amplifier very similar to Naim, with an impeccable reputation and quite a cult following here in England. So there is no way that treble was rolled off or bass was overblown before.
The thing is - everything sounds great with Bryston down to upper bass. Anything below is recessed to a point where I just can hardly hear some bass notes I've heard so many times on my favourite records. It becomes more audible when I raise the volume, but at normal evening listening level it just shrinks.
I relly doubt if you can call it the right balance when you can literally hear only half of bass guitar or a double bass. I have auditioned Musical Fidelity 308 in my new system before buying Bryston, and it was not the case then.
My ATC SCM 35 are 3-way full range infinite baffle (which means a flat bass responce down to 45) floorstanders that do not need any sub to reproduce a really deep bass. My speaker cable at the moment is QED XT 400, thick enough (4 sq.mm) even for my 2x20 ft. length. IC are Cardas.
I just can't get it. The only explanation I can figure out is that Bryston is the amp that prefers to play really loud, as is ATC, so together they giv such an effect when the level is lower. But then, even if it is the case I still should be able to at least hear those bass notes, shouldn't I?

Nomoretweaks · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 12:36 pm »

Thanks, James,
I have not seen you reply before posting my previous post. I'll double check all the wires again, but I don't think it's the case. I think there are several factors combined and I need to eliminate each at a time. I do not want to give up on Bryston, because I like your philosophy as well as your service. Is Bryston more sensitive than an average amp to a speaker wire? QED XT 400 has a good reputation, but it is a silver plated tubular design which might have such an effect on Bryston. Is it worth trying another wire known to have a good lower bass, like Oval 9 p.e.? (ATC engineers I talked to dismiss any cable hype, their advice was - use ANY wire thicker than 2,5 mm. )

James Tanner · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 01:47 pm »

HI NOM,

Usually if it is a level issue - gets better when you turn it up - then I would say it is a speaker and placement issue.
The cables are not a problem as far as I know. We use 9.5 gauge Van Damme cable in our setups but please try other cables and let me know.

It is perplexing because solid controlled bass is one of the qualities Bryston is famous for.

james

Nomoretweaks · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 02:00 pm »

Thanks,

I have no doubts in Bryston bass capabilities ( I heard 4BSST in a dealers room with my speakers and the bass was of a highest order) and will try to work it out with my home system. I will let you know about the results.

Nomoretweaks · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Aug 2004, 03:13 pm »

In the meantime I found a rather curious article in Stereo Times:

http://www.stereotimes.com/comm112103.shtm

A reviewer explains how various grounding methods of his system ased on no less than four 7B SST cause sonic differences, which were, I quote "profound--the difference between unacceptable and the kind of satisfaction you can relax into."
He has also experienced thin "thinning bass" effect.

Nomoretweaks · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Aug 2004, 01:10 pm »

FYI: It was a faulty connection on my diital cable. The pin was literally wobbling, I had it reterminated and everything snapped itno focus. Bass is great now. How is that possible that a faulty connection cut off only "bass digits"? Don't ask...

gravy · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Aug 2004, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Nomoretweaks

FYI: It was a faulty connection on my diital cable. The pin was literally wobbling, I had it reterminated and everything snapped itno focus. Bass is great now. How is that possible that a faulty connection cut off only "bass digits"? Don't ask...

Thanks for closing the loop on that one - what a mystery. Glad to hear everything is ok.

pauldixonuk · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 May 2005, 12:14 pm »

It's not the bryston. I have a 4bsst myself. More likely it's your preamp or cdp.

Recently I tried a few different pre amps into the fully active atc 50 3-ways. Atc's very own ca2 preamp has sod all bass on miled davis 'so what'. Swopped over to a valve pre and the bass doubled in output. We also had a benchmark dac1 acting as dac and pre, which again has a ton more bass (valve was much more fun and 'live').

Swop your pre's about!!