[Horizons]

So I go to an audiophile friends house last weekend. This guy has a very high end rig - Martin Logan, Mark Levinson, etc.  Anyway, after a few CDs he says he wants to test me on something so I leave the room, he makes the secret change, and I return for more listening.

Long story short, I end up LOVING whatever change he made in his system. No, it wasn't a placebo test that I failed. He was inserting a digital reverb unit in and out of the system - some Behringer? unit. With the Behinger unit in place and with a touch of added reverb I greatly preferred the sound of his system. Everything sounded more spacious, more liquid, more real. The sound completely detached from his speakers like it never has.

As a lifelong audiophile I have always thought that the less processing the better but now I am having second thoughts. Adding some crummy reverb device to my high end purist rig? NO WAY. But I can't deny what I heard and preferred.

My friend leaves it on all the time now. But is this one of those things that you might get tired of in the long run?

Any thoughts?

[TheChairGuy]

Were drinks or drugs involved?  

[Soundbitten]

I've had the SCE Harmonic Recovery System in my system for years now . Periodically , if I changed a componant , I would remove it to compare but I always ended up liking the sound better with the HRS in the chain.

[warnerwh]

I've wondered about that myself.  I could see where just a tiny bit may have a pleasing effect.  Also I suspect signal processing is on it's way into all of our lives. Alot of good can be done with DSP and that good outweighs the bad.

[R_burke]

So, I'm curious, what was the unit, and how was it used

[Harry P]

been there, done that, it does get old but enjoy while it lasts!

[Horizons]

Were drinks or drugs involved?  

   a few beers, not enough to make me drool over Bose speakers, I can assure you of that.

[Horizons]

So, I'm curious, what was the unit, and how was it used

I didn't get the specifics other than it was a Behringer unit and he said it was only a few hundred bucks.

I told him I was interested in repeating this little session with some of my own CDs. I'll get the digital reverb details then...

[csero]

Long story short, I end up LOVING whatever change he made in his system. No, it wasn't a placebo test that I failed. He was inserting a digital reverb unit in and out of the system - some Behringer? unit. With the Behinger unit in place an ...

Adding a little echo is a quick fix to the problem that stereo reproduction is usually too dry compared to any real live performance. Room treatment not only doesn't help in this respect, even make things worse.

The added echo is a fix for the front stage, but will not fix the missing side and rear ambience. Try the pre-5.1  four channel ambience generators (yamaha, lexicon, jvc), you might like them better.

[nathanm]

What was the recording you were listening to, Horizons?  Was it really dry?

[Horizons]

What was the recording you were listening to, Horizons?  Was it really dry?

Didn't think it was dry, it was a recording of Vivaldi Four Seasons and then Sting - Nothing like the Sun.  Both of these sounded good but they sounded even better with a touch of reverb. Funny, I didn't perceive it as smeared or added echo, etc.

I was totally shocked when it was added reverb. I expected some EQing or an added tube stage that had sweetened and warmed up the sound.

[nathanm]

I've got a Lexicon MPX-1 reverb\multieffects unit.  I never used it for music playback, but some of the reverbs are extremely good.  You can tweak the room size, delay, diffusion, HF rolloff and all sorts of weird stuff I don't fully understand.  I was able to pretty closely recreate the sound of a particularly great sounding theater where I saw a gig once with it.  If you dial in really short reverb times you can make otherwise really dry sounds come alive and sound very realistic or rather hyper-realistic.  

I wonder what he was using as far as a reverb setting.  As long as there's no distinct echo\delay I wouldn't be surprised if it flattered the music.  Of course, you DO know that will go to audiophile jail for adding effects to your rig, right?  I mean, maybe tone controls could be forgiven, but reverb?!  Blasphemy!  But playing with cables which offer more or less reverb is okay.

[grub]

There is a threshold where we begin to hear a delay as two seperate events (off the top of my head, 10-30ms).  If the reverb was set for a really short delay, it may fatten up the sound, and you wouldn't "notice" it.  I hear that sculpting delays is a trick often used by recording studio cats.
Maybe the reverb is creating a similar effect in your friends system?
-->grub

[WerTicus]

you would think it would blurr the sound and make the dum kicks less precise etc.

[bilbobaggins]

With the Behinger unit in place and with a touch of added reverb I greatly preferred the sound of his system. Everything sounded more spacious, more liquid, more real. The sound completely detached from his speakers like it never has.

I'm not surprised you liked it because that is what reverb does.  However the acid test would be whether you prefer for stereo listening over the long haul.  We should keep in mind that even purist recording engineers use reverb for the very same reason.  I remember reading for one of the stereophile recordings, John Atkinson added reverb to piano [?] because the sound was otherwise too dry.  And on voices, we all know those karaoke singers sing with tons of reverb to make everyone sound somewhat listenable.  Of course, they are way too heavy handed for a good singer.

[jermmd]

What exactly does reverb do?  I have a reverb adjustment on my parasound pre-pro that I believe only effects the subwoofer and only in ambience modes (such as "hall" or "club").  Needless to say I haven't really played with it yet.

Joe M.

[csero]

What exactly does reverb do?  ...

It is actually an attempt to recreate the realistic timbre of the instrument.
For realistic reproduction you need tonal and spatial accuracy. While hi-fi overemphasize the first, forgets almost completely about the second.

If you play an instrument in a real space, most you hear is not only direct sound, but the reverberated sound of the hall too. Now, if you stuck a mic or two in the piano, what you get is "hi-fi sound", but not the realistic perceived timbre of the instrument at normal listening distance. A little reverb unconsciously adds back the missing part of the real timbre of the instrument. Too bad, because for the total fidelity, at least the HF part of the timbral ambience should be directionally correct, not only coming from 2 front speakers.

[Tbadder1]

Didn't ARC have a reverb unit.  I think my local dealer still has one for demostrations.

[Uptown Audio]

It was a ML/M-L system, of course it was really dry...
I have found that reverb does make for some interesting effects and will patch a really uninvolving system, but does change the original in a way that is not as pleasing in a more well balanced system. There are a load of products out there that you slip in between your preamp and amp or CD player and preamp, tape loop, etc that are claimed to "make amazing improvements", but they all either add noise or otherwise disrupt the natural decay of the recordings. The latest digital units add less or no really appreciable noise. I am in favor of these when they correct serious room problems by adjusting the speakers response to match but don't care for the "tricks" so much. I hated the HRS thing. It was total hype and a useless, noisemaker for me. I have even sold a couple units that were to be installed between a CD player and a preamp to a couple of people who were vinyl heads and did not like the early CD sound. I include myself in that group, yet never liked the "harmonic restoration devices, etc" in my system. They do change the sound, but you have other issues that need correcting if they sound better than not having them. A better CD player is the obvious fix there.
-Bill