Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?

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gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« on: 10 Aug 2004, 08:44 pm »
Hi Guys,

Is anyone using the sp17's rs232 port to issue serial commands via girder?  I'm just getting into it and it has some real potential.

After about 20 mins playing I can connect to the sp17 via Hyperterminal but can't get Girder to send commands thru the serial connection yet.  Must be a com settings issue...

Any insight / experiences would be appreciated.  I'm using the SP17 RS232 Protocol document provided on the Bryson website.  

http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/SP17_RS232_051.pdf

Stay tuned...

gravy

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Re: Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #1 on: 11 Aug 2004, 03:43 am »
Well - I was able to get girder to send commands via the serial port to the sp17 tonite.

But now I need to handle the data I recieve BACK from the sp17 to girder.

James, if you happen to read this, do the engineers have detailed documentation about the Bryston rs232 communcation protocol, which would help me?   Things like termination characters, etc?

I can see the data returned from commands such as SS7 (i.e tell me the current volume setting) but I need some details about the way packets are terminated?  I hope this makes sense...

James Tanner

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #2 on: 11 Aug 2004, 11:58 am »
Will ask Shane to answer this one.

James

stp1200

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #3 on: 11 Aug 2004, 08:27 pm »
The feedback strings from the SP1.7 use the ASCII format.  

Each string coming back from the SP1.7 is followed by an ASCII carraige return which is hex 0x0D.  

And of course, please observe the software flow control protocol - do not send a command unless the '>' character is received.

I hope this answers your question

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #4 on: 11 Aug 2004, 08:36 pm »
Quote from: stp1200
The feedback strings from the SP1.7 use the ASCII format.  

Each string coming back from the SP1.7 is followed by an ASCII carraige return which is hex 0x0D.  

And of course, please observe the software flow control protocol - do not send a command unless the '>' character is received.

I hope this answers your question


Thanks for the fast response Shane - that will certainly get me started.  I'll use this thread to post my results and questions.  

Scott

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #5 on: 16 Aug 2004, 07:57 pm »
Quote from: stp1200
The feedback strings from the SP1.7 use the ASCII format.  

Each string coming back from the SP1.7 is followed by an ASCII carraige return which is hex 0x0D.  

And of course, please observe the software flow control protocol - do not send a command unless the '>' character is received.

I hope this answers your question


Everything is up and running - thanks for the help.  

One further question - The protocol document doesn't show any serial events when the OSD on/off button is pushed on the remote.   I used Portmon (serial port monitor) to confirm that when I push OSD on my remote, nothing is sent to the serial port.

Is this correct?  I was really hoping to trap the OSD on/off remote command at the serial port and display my "home grown" OSD on my home theater PC monitor.

I haven alternate means of detecting the OSD commands (usin IR detection), but the serial solution is so much more elegant!

stp1200

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #6 on: 16 Aug 2004, 08:19 pm »
The OSD commands flow through the serial port that is supposed to be attached to our video switcher - the SPV-1.  If you wanted to 'trap' these commands, you would need another serial port I guess.

We haven't published the serial protocol for the video switcher because it's supposed to be a 'plug and play' connection.  But, if you wanted to do this I would be happy to e-mail the protocol to you.

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #7 on: 16 Aug 2004, 09:43 pm »
Quote from: stp1200
The OSD commands flow through the serial port that is supposed to be attached to our video switcher - the SPV-1.  If you wanted to 'trap' these commands, you would need another serial port I guess.

We haven't published the serial protocol for the video switcher because it's supposed to be a 'plug and play' connection.  But, if you wanted to do this I would be happy to e-mail the protocol to you.


Hi Shane,

Thanks for the info.  I currently have that serial port connected to my computer - that's how I'm trapping the other commands - so I should be able to "see" the commands using hyperterminal, etc, right?

I'd love to have a look at the SPV-1 protocol, if you don't mind!

can you send it to (remove the word NOSPAM.):

smaclenn@NOSPAM.mts.net

Thanks!

jethro

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #8 on: 17 Aug 2004, 12:09 am »
Shane,

I wouldn't mind having a copy of the SPV-1 protocol as I own an SPV-1. Could you please e-mail me a copy to:

sol at accesswave dot ca ?


The serial cable mentioned in SP17_RS232_051.pdf on your website doesn't appear to list which upgraded SP-1's (i.e. X-serial #'s) require a crossover cable as opposed to a straight thru. I can figure it out from my working SPV-1 serial cable but it might be handy to include in the next update of the pdf if in fact it is not already in the pdf.

Thanks.

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #9 on: 18 Aug 2004, 08:11 pm »
Quote from: stp1200
The OSD commands flow through the serial port that is supposed to be attached to our video switcher - the SPV-1.  If you wanted to 'trap' these commands, you would need another serial port I guess.

We haven't published the serial protocol for the video switcher because it's supposed to be a 'plug and play' connection.  But, if you wanted to do this I would be happy to e-mail the protocol to you.


bumpola!  I have a free night tonite and I'd looo-oove to pour over some protocols!

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #10 on: 10 Sep 2004, 02:33 pm »
Shane,

Hate to be a pest, but is getting a copy of the SPV-1 protocol still an option?

gravy

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #11 on: 10 Feb 2005, 06:42 pm »
Well I got the serial control of SP17 via girder working pretty well.   I'll post it over at www.promixis.com at the girder forums.

Three questions:

1.  Is there an updated version of the Serial command listing?  The one on the website is Rev 5, March 2003.  Just wondering if there is updated documentation for the serial protocol.

2.  Is the SP1 switcher protocol documentation available?

3.  More of a comment - I wish that we could have Autofeedback default to "On", rather than having to issue AFY when the SP17 first boots.

I also noticed that not all updates or changes are passed along to the rs232 port.  

For example, if I'm watching a Dolby Digital 5.1 movie, and mid-movie I switch over to DTS 5.1, the SP17 does not appear to notify the serial port of the change.  Because of this, I can't detect the change via my home-grown OSD software.  :(

Hopefully this can be corrected in a future firmware update - I'd sure like to see each and every change detected (and which are correctly shown on the SP17's LCD, currently) should also be communicated to the serial port.  



Thanks!

Scott

ScottMayo

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Missing '>'??
« Reply #12 on: 15 Apr 2005, 08:23 pm »
I'm trying my hand at controlling the SP1.7 as well. (I'm not using girder - I have a Javelin microprocessor, running Java, that is handling the logic.)

I've noticed what look like odd quirks - for example, when I send an SS3 command, it responds with the currently selected input, but doesn't return the '>' prompt. (Unless I'm missing it, but I doubt it - the serial port is buffered.)

If other people have noticed quirks and gotten around them, I'd appreciate the help.

gravy

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #13 on: 15 Apr 2005, 10:05 pm »
Quote from: ScottMayo
I'm trying my hand at controlling the SP1.7 as well. (I'm not using girder - I have a Javelin microprocessor, running Java, that is handling the logic.)

I've noticed what look like odd quirks - for example, when I send an SS3 command, it responds with the currently selected input, but doesn't return the '>' prompt. (Unless I'm missing it, but I doubt it - the serial port is buffered.)

If other people have noticed quirks and gotten around them, I'd appreciate the help.


I've noticed this as well, Scott.    I couldn't rely on receiving a > after each and every command, so I moved to more of a "timeout" model, where i accumulate the text response and simply truncate it after say 30ms.

Kluge?  hell ya.

ScottMayo

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #14 on: 16 Apr 2005, 04:15 am »
Quote from: gravy
I've noticed this as well, Scott.    I couldn't rely on receiving a > after each and every command, so I moved to more of a "timeout" model, where i accumulate the text response and simply truncate it after say 30ms.

Kluge?  hell ya.


There has *got* to be something better. I've got an email into James T, to get more detail on the protocol. I can't believe Bryston would not do a complete job of providing an automation protocol.

James Tanner

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Any SP17 / Girder / RS232 Users Out there?
« Reply #15 on: 16 Apr 2005, 11:59 am »
This is a Mike Pickett or Shane Parrfit question.
I will forward.

james

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #16 on: 16 Apr 2005, 02:28 pm »
Quote from: ScottMayo
Quote from: gravy
I've noticed this as well, Scott.    I couldn't rely on receiving a > after each and every command, so I moved to more of a "timeout" model, where i accumulate the text response and simply truncate it after say 30ms.

Kluge?  hell ya.


There has *got* to be something better. I've got an email into James T, to get more detail on the protocol. I can't believe Bryston would not do a complete job of providing an automation protocol.


Agreed.  If we can get an open discussion going with Shane or Mike, then I'll detail some of the "odditites" I've run into with the rs232 protocol.  I'm just glad theres another Bryston'er tryingn to use it!

ScottMayo

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #17 on: 16 Apr 2005, 03:16 pm »
Quote from: gravy
Agreed.  If we can get an open discussion going with Shane or Mike, then I'll detail some of the "odditites" I've run into with the rs232 protocol.  I'm just glad theres another Bryston'er tryingn to use it!


I've been planning my design-from-scratch Music Room automation for about 6 months. It integrates lighting, control of the SP1.7 and 2 Bryston amps, with touch sensors, motion sensors, and inputs like doorbell and phone ring, to create (what I hope will be) a room that more or less manages itself. Hit the THX button on the Bry remote, and the system will figure out that it's movie time, and it will select the DVD, dim the lights, set the phone to flash-but-not-beep, fire up the amps, etc.

Everything is working in prototype, but I've had to hack the code to use timeouts, as you mentioned earlier. This is the only kludge in the entire design.

What I've got is -
1. Wait for the first > to show up after power up. That declares the preamp "ready for command"
2. On sending a command, declare the preamp unready.
3. On seeing >, declare it ready (and kill the timer in the next step)
4. On seeing Return, set a countdown timer
5. If timer goes off, declare preamp ready for commands.

Now I reaslize that Bryston probably can't change their protocol, as people who have coded to it would have Bryson's intestines on a stick. But here are some talking points:

- On the RS232, set up CTS, or RI, or *some* pin, to indicate when you're ready to accept a command. Polling the input stream for ready markers isn't ideal. I don't think we want full flow control, but this would have been easy and cost about one transistor. (This would have the useful side effect of giving a controller some positive knowledge of whether the SP1.7 was alive, without hacks like peeking at Rx.)

- send > after every state change. Some button presses send back more than one line, and some events, like the volume control, will send back lines of text at any time, so my "line-end-and-timer" hack, above, isn't always likely to work.

- Make AFY the default. There's no reason not to. Unless you're afraid that serial responses are injecting noise into the audio side....

- PU, when the unit is on, shouldn't return error (!). It has the useful side effect of lighting up the display, and sometimes controllers won't be sure if the SP1.7 is on (and will want to make sure.)

- MY SP1.7 powers up by sending B<ret>SP1.7 OS v44D1<ret>. Is the B for Bryston?

-It would be great if serial commands could affect the 12v control relay. Also if they could turn the display on and off.

-It would be great of unrecognised remote codes would be echoed down the serial line (eg., "UC94"), as this allows the Bryston remote to become an input to an automation controller.

-It would be useful if there was a command that was guaranteed forever to return Error. One way to see if the SP1.7 is awake without changing the state is to send AA<Ret>, and get back the !. I'd hate for this to someday do something unintended.

-Is it my imagination, or is there something weird about sending lower case x's as a command? I mean, if it's an Easter egg, a response like "Avoid brand X; Bryston rocks" would have been funnier.

Thanks!

ScottMayo

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #18 on: 18 Apr 2005, 05:25 pm »
Any idea when more info will be available?

ScottMayo

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Re: Missing '>'??
« Reply #19 on: 19 Apr 2005, 05:35 pm »
Quote from: ScottMayo
Any idea when more info will be available?


I got a private email, stating that the various SSx commands do not return the > prompt. The email implied the others should, but it wasn't definitive. The lack of > after SS commands "may be a bug", the writer wasn't sure.

So it looks to me like a working controller algorithm would be:

1) send a PU command. Wait for the ! (already on) or >.
2) Thereafter, send a command and wait for:
    A line of text ending with 0x0d: set a 300ms timer runnning
    A ! response. Discard the timer; you may send
    A > response. Discard the timer; you may send

If the timer goes off, the response didn't send a > when it should have, so assume you got it and send your next command. 300ms is a guess on my part. Note there is no response to PD, and you should wait at least 2 secs before trying a PU.

I can think of a bug in all this:
1) Send some command that's slow to answer and doesn't return a >.
2) At the same time, someone physically twists the volume control.
The preamp will send back a line of text for the volume change. You'd start your timer early, it would go off early, and you'd think you were clear to send the next command before the SP1.7 was truely ready. You'd lose the next command.

I don't know if that scenario is possible. Moral: don't touch the SP1.7 while you are trying to automate it.