[Verne M.]

I've been listening to Vinnie's digital cable for the past few days, and it's a big improvement over my homemade Belden 8281 with Canare 75 ohm rcas cable.  The cable runs from the coax out of my Marantz CD-4000 to my AVA Omega Star dac.

My wife noticed the difference immediately.  The music is much clearer - the instruments are better defined.  I was surprised because I thought all digital cables were basically the same.  The cable is a keeper, and for what Vinnie charges it's a no-brainer, IMHO.

I wrote Vinnie, and he believes that crimping makes for a superior connection over soldering, and the noise rejection of the RG-59 coax is superior, too.  I guess it comes down to quality components carefully chosen and properly made.

Has anyone compared his interconnects with other brands?

[Vinnie R.]

I wrote Vinnie, and he believes that crimping makes for a superior connection over soldering, and the noise rejection of the RG-59 coax is superior, too. I guess it comes down to quality components carefully chosen and properly made

Hi Verne,

First of all...welcome to the Audio Circles!  

I had a good feeling that you'd like my digital cable  

Yes, I believe that crimping the true 75-ohm BNC connectors using proper crimping tools (which make a stronger, more reliable connection than solder connectors) onto 75-ohm RG-59 coax is THE WAY to go with digital cables.  Your cable uses all-copper RG-59 coax with a teflon dielectric (not the cheap foam type of dielectric) and true 75-ohm BNC connectors that are crimped (no solder used).  

I hope you tried to pull the connectors off the cable as I suggested to test their strength...they do not budge when properly crimped on!  This cable will last you for years.  I'd love to put it up against anything costing 10x the price  


Thanks for your post!

[mcgsxr]

Vinnie, are the prices for these listed somewhere on your site, or are they custom, and priced according to spec?

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, are the prices for these listed somewhere on your site, or are they custom, and priced according to spec?

Hi Mark,

I really need to clean up my website soon and break down product options, customization, etc.

For now, you can see pricing info on the cables here:

http://www.redwineaudio.com/Ordering_Info.html

Just scroll down.

I've been swamped these past few weeks, and I'm very busy this week gearing up for the Montreal show.  I'll try to get the webpage better organized when I get back.

Regards,

[Ulas]

Yes, I believe that crimping the true 75-ohm BNC connectors using proper crimping tools (which make a stronger, more reliable connection than solder connectors) onto 75-ohm RG-59 coax is THE WAY to go with digital cables.

Caveat emptor.

Vinnie claims his BNC connectors are “true-75 ohm,” but how do you know they are really “true 75-ohm?” Because Vinnie says so? I haven’t seen the ends of Vinnie’s cables so I don’t know if they are 75- or 50-ohm, but judging from the pictures of the Red Wine Audio Reali-T and the repackaged Scott Nixon DAC, Vinnie doesn’t know, either. You see, both pictures clearly show a 50-ohm BNC.

Caveat emptor.

When I called this discrepancy to Vinnie’s attention, he assured me his BNCs were 75-ohms and implied I didn’t know what I was talking about. Then I showed him pictures of “true 75-ohm” BNCs and he then blamed his supplier for selling him the wrong goods.

Caveat emptor.

There is nothing wrong with using 50-ohm BNCs for S/PDIF in a home audio system where the cable lengths are relatively short. In fact, many big-name audio manufacturers use 50-ohm BNCs because BNCs look more “professional” than RCA plugs, 50-ohm BNCs perform as well as RCA plugs, which are also about 50 ohms, and because 50-ohm BNCs are usually cheaper and more readily available than 75-ohm.

So, why am I getting on Vinnie’s case for doing the same as Wadia and others? Because Wadia and the others do not claim their BNCs are “true 75-ohm.”

Caveat emptor.

[Vinnie R.]

Caveat emptor.

Vinnie claims his BNC connectors are “true-75 ohm,” but how do you know they are really “true 75-ohm?” Because Vinnie says so? I haven’t seen the ends of Vinnie’s cables so I don’t know if they are 75- or 50-ohm, but judging from the pictures of the Red Wine Audio Reali-T and the repackaged Scott Nixon DAC, Vinnie doesn’t know, either. You see, both pictures clearly show a 50-ohm BNC.

Caveat emptor.

When I called this discrepancy to Vinnie’s attention, he assured me his BNCs were 75- ...

Ulas and all,

I have nothing to hide, and here is the email correspondance between Ulas and me:

Ulas wrote:

"Yo Vinnie,

Your Reali-T looks good but what's up with the 50 ohm BNC connector on the back? I thought the S/PDIF spec called for 75 ohms. I hope the BNC
connectors on your 75-ohm coax cables and your BNC to RCA adaptors are  true 75 ohms.

Ulas"

I respond wtih:

"Yo Ulas,

What do you mean? The BNC connectors used are 75 ohms.

Regards,

Vinnie Rossi
Red Wine Audio, Inc.
www.redwineaudio.com"

Ulas replies:

"Vinnie,
Apparently you don't know the difference between 50- and 75-ohm BNCs. Don't feel bad, Wadia and a number of others who manufacture and sell digital audio gear don't either.

Here's a photo that shows the difference at the socket end:
http://www.cybermesa.com/~jmlpartners/image/bncs.jpg
The 75-ohm BNC is on the right.

If you don't believe me, look here to see the differences at the plug end:
http://sosnick.uchicago.edu/BNC_50_75.html

If you still don't believe, find a reputable component supplier and order
one of each, 50-ohm/75-ohm BNC plug and socket and see what you get. If the 50-ohm and 75-ohm BNCs look the same, find a better supplier.
Ulas"

Finally, I responded with:

"Ulas,
 
Thanks for the info.  I was told that the BNC jacks were 75-ohm from digikey.  I'll look into this.
 
Thanks again,
 
Vinnie Rossi
Red Wine Audio, Inc.
www.redwineaudio.com"


Ulas,

I am sorry if I gave you the impression of implying that you don't know what you are talking about.  All I stated to you was "What do you mean? The BNC connectors used are 75 ohms."  After you explained to me your findings, I thanked you for the info, so I don't know why you are acting so defensive.  

The BNC jacks that I ordered are supposed to be 75-ohm.  It looks like a mistake was made and I am waiting to hear back.  It is entirely possible that I made the mistake (maybe in typing in the part number during ordering process).  

>>So, why am I getting on Vinnie’s case for doing the same as Wadia and others? Because Wadia and the others do not claim their BNCs are “true 75-ohm.”

Fair enough...I'll have to switch this to simply "a BNC connector."

Sorry for the confusion everyone...

Sincerely,

[Dmason]

It's always nice to have a peek thru the keyhole...

Hey Vinnie,

if the worst, or only criticism you've had so far is from hit n' run assholes like Ulasferatu The Impaler, then I would say that you sir, are off to a great start.

I think I would like to start a special Circle about Behavioral Dynamics. My first topic would be Antisocial Behavioral Templates. It is an interesting area. I would then use Ulas as an example.

Feel free to delete. I have less class than Vinnie obviously.

[maxwalrath]

buyer had better beware. I mean damn, the cable is clearly marked up so much.  

[Vinnie R.]

The BNC jacks that I ordered are supposed to be 75-ohm. It looks like a mistake was made and I am waiting to hear back. It is entirely possible that I made the mistake (maybe in typing in the part number during ordering process).

I did hear back yesterday and I am the one at fault.   Looks like I copied down the part number for an RG-58, not RG-59 BNC.  
My bad!

I called to get an RMA to return my current stock and have it replaced with the part that I meant to order (BNC for 75-ohm RG-59).  

Again, I apologise for the confusion.  I hope people don't think I was trying pull the wool over their eyes in order to save what appears to be $1.35 difference in connector price      
All that "caveat emptor" had me feeling like some nasty scam artist!  

Thanks for your understanding,

[Ulas]

All that "caveat emptor" had me feeling like some nasty scam artist!

Vinnie, caveat emptor simply means “buyer beware.” It does not say anyone is a scam artist. It is the buyer’s responsibility to choose the goods that fit his needs and verify that the goods delivered meet his expectations. And that applies to you as well as your customers. You, as an electrical engineer and proprietor of Red Wine Audio, should have verified that the components you purchased were correct.

What surprised me was that you were so confident your BNCs were 75-ohms even though you didn’t know what a 75-ohm BNC looked like.

[MttBsh]

Look Ulas, Vinnie has publicly apologized for a very minor error, and  has taken the necessary steps to correct the problem. We, Vinnie's customers, all owe you a debt of gratitude. Thanks for being the hero and saving the day. Now let it go will you?

[miklorsmith]

Oh no.  You're not getting off that easy, Mr. Rossi.  You saved $1.35 you say, PER connector.  Yeah, that sounds innocent enough, till you multiply it by 10!!  Yeah, then you're scamming us for THIRTEEN BUCKS.  I don't have to go on.

While you're building your palace on the free labor of the proletariat, raining laughter from the 4th floor deck, me and my sore back are gonna be cursing your sorry name.  $1.35 buys the one Guinness I can afford each week from the measly sums you so innocently appropriate to your own vicious ends.

Can a digital signal even pass a 50-ohm connector?  My cobbled together system is just going to sound like crinkled-up paper now.  You should be ashamed young man!

Actually, with the $5k I saved on the amp, I'm cool wid' it.  

[Verne M.]

Vinnie, caveat emptor simply means “buyer beware.” It does not say anyone is a scam artist.

Ulas the repeated use of "caveat emptor" in your reply gave the implication of knowing deceit, in my opinion.  In fact, I think you have been a touch mean-spirited in your writings - sort of "in-your-face."  I don't think Vinnie deserves it.

FWIW I still think the cable sounds great.  Vinnie contacted me and is sending a new cable with 75 ohm bnc and bnc to rca adaptors.  

I'll be happy to report back if there is any difference.

[Vinnie R.]

You, as an electrical engineer and proprietor of Red Wine Audio, should have verified that the components you purchased were correct.

Ulas,

Yes, I agree that I should have verified this.  I apologised for the mistake and I even thanked you for providing me the information in your email.  However, this doesn't seem good enough for you.  Maybe you have some other agenda?  Everyone makes mistakes, true?  Luckily, this is very minor.

What surprised me was that you were so confident your BNCs were 75-ohms

What surprised me is your negative attitude since your first email and what seems to be a lack of social skills.  You seem to be an unhappy person.  What is done is done, and if you have nothing positive to contribute on this circle, please go elsewhere.

Thank you,

[MaxCast]

I guess he could have said nothing and after 1000 cables were sold then brought it to everyones attention....now that would have been nasty!  Sometimes you have to check the checker.

[art]

Two ways to make sure that you really do get 75 ohm connectors:

1.) Buy from some place like Trompeter that makes their own, and actually knows the difference.

2.) Pay some starving paesano in Texas that has a TDR to measure them for you. Ditto for your cables. (I'll make you an offer that you can't refuse...............)


Pat