All in One vs. Nixon Dac and transport

The Dude Abides · « **on:** 1 Apr 2005, 04:57 am »

So I am looking into getting one of Vinnie's Clari-Ts but I am at a loss about which way to go for my source. I have a friend who swears by Naim CDPs, but i have also heard much praise about the synergy between the Clari-T and a battery powered Scott nixon Dackit (or any battery DAC for that matter). All tolled they would be about the same price for me: $1200 or so for a used naim CD5 on Agon or $500 for Vinnie's Dackit and a transport...

What do you guys think on the matter?
Thanks,
Chris

Hantra · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 05:00 am »

Quote from: The Dude Abides

So I am looking into getting one of Vinnie's Clari-Ts but I am at a loss about which way to go for my source. I have a friend who swears by Naim CDPs, but i have also heard much praise about the synergy between the Clari-T and a battery powered Scott nixon Dackit (or any battery DAC for that matter). All tolled they would be about the same price for me: $1200 or so for a used naim CD5 on Agon or $500 for Vinnie's Dackit and a transport...

What do you guys think on the matter?
Thanks,
Chris

Chris:

For my money, the Nixon DAC can't be beaten. If you add a PC to the mix as a transport, it's going to be tough to beat in a $15,000 one box player in my experience.

I like the Naim too but it won't do what non-oversampling will do.

HTH,

B

gary · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 01:34 pm »

Hantra's right, the Nixon dac is an unreal value. I haven't tried the computer as a digital source (for now I'm using a cheap Samgsung DVD player), but I will as soon as I'm in my new house and I build a new HTPC.

Gary

Dmason · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 01:58 pm »

I second this. When I got the Nixon DAC wired up for battery, any interest in sources for digital vanished. ...That was over two years ago. I had found the right sound, which was Real Music, playing. Interpolating the signal with mathematical assumptions does NOT improve the muisic. This is becoming more widely known.

With the ClariT, the effect is multiplied, yin and yang. Gary and I are the only ones fooling around with this potent combination, other than Vinnie, I think. It doesnt get any better, really. Maybe different, but not better.

Hantra is correct, and takes this synergy one step further in mentioning the use of PC as [ultimate] transport. Follow this recipe and you WILL be satisfied.

Add high sensitivity speakers, like horns and open baffles, and have world class sonics for a pittance.

Hantra · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 01:59 pm »

As a matter of fact, let me revise my statement. I am not sure you COULD beat it in a single box player for any price. The only thing I have heard to beat the DAC was an Audio Note 3.1x Balanced DAC, and that was before I used the PC on it, and even then it was a marginal difference.

Hantra · « **Reply #5 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

I second this. When I got the Nixon DAC wired up for battery, any interest in sources for digital vanished.......

If I could find a way not to have to charge my DAC and turn it off every time after listening, I'd like to try battery. There has to be a way to rig a charger to it that will disconnect when you put a signal to it. See I've never ever heard didgital that was good NOT warmed up, and to turn off my DAC and back on when I want to listen, well I can't imagine that would be as good as a warm DAC. Not to mention a pain in the rear. . .

Songforyou · « **Reply #6 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 02:22 pm »

Is the SN battery DAC significantly better than the tubedac+ even in a conventional (vintage tube based) system?

I too am weighing the SN and transport v. all in one player. I have a Meridian 507 and it does some things very well (especially depth), but for some reason it doesn't grab me emotionally.

Dmason · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 03:17 pm »

Again I agree with Hantra in that I am not sure that you could better the sound. I recently heard a Wadia 861 which is supposed to be soooo good, and ultra expen$ive, but I preferred the sound of the battery DAC with Sony transport. In fact, I thought the Wadia was in no way special. The result was that I saw the tiny DACkit as even MORE special!!

I also agree that a warmed up circuit is better. I prefer the straight DAC to the TubeDAC, and one shouldn't get too hung up on the use of NOS vintage wa ya, tubes, because it is an impedance matching circuit, -- a buffer. Having said that, the improvements rendered thru use of battery juice seem to greatly outweigh warmed circuitry. This opinion is based on use of a TubeDAC right next to a battery DAC.

Hantra · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 03:23 pm »

So is it worth the hassle of switching it every time you want to listen and replacing batteries and such?

I mean that's why I got out of vinyl. The hassle. . .

PS Wadia is teh suck. . .

Dmason · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 03:37 pm »

I have never replaced any batteries. they charge up and I listen.

Hassle? One needs only to adjust thinking to "appliance." When you need to see in the night, you turn the light ON. When you are finished, you turn the light, OFF. I suggest there is a minor mental block with this aspect of battery driven DAC's et al. It is just a household appliance.

The benefits TO ME far outweigh. It sounds more like vinyl. The tube DAC adds more HF E, and winds up sounding ~closer to upsampling dreck. Batteries CLEARLY impart an immediacy which AC cannot. The water I drink comes from a reservoir in the fridge, after it has been processed and stored. It works better than the stuff with a current. Batteries are healthier for music, and "taste" better.

As always, YMMV.

The Dude Abides · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 04:23 pm »

Okay, I am convinced: Now I still have one more question, with a buget of $1200 or so, which way do I go with Vinnie; having a hardwired DAC, with external Battery supply, seperate Units (i.e. stock) or what???

Thanks
Chris

Dmason · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 04:37 pm »

FWIW, Vinnie is working right now on the Reali-T, an all out assault on the concept.

My own Rx is the following all-in-one box, in the shipyard now:

ClariT with Black Gate P/S capacitors, Auricaps coupling caps, OTA Cu wiring, battery DAC hardwired directly to the T-chip, three input, Greyhill selector switch, post-attenuator output for sub, speakers.

This will take the obvious synergy of the two and jack it up a few notches. Talk to him when he returns from Montreal.

Hantra · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 04:44 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

The tube DAC adds more HF E, and winds up sounding ~closer to upsampling dreck. Batteries CLEARLY impart an immediacy which AC cannot....

Send it to me! Heh. . . Scott seems to have an aversion to batteries and I don't know why. I wouldn't mind hearing it, but having played the Ack!$%$ back to back with the TubeDAC and hearing Ack!@#^ get Owned! I didn't think much of batteries either. I'd hate to hear THAT thing on wall power.

Quote

with a buget of $1200 or so

$1200, I'd get the Nixon DAC in whatever flavor you want and build a PC for a transport and then spend the rest on a Stereovox HDXV.

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 05:00 pm »

While I've never heard a TubeDac (mainly because I'm not overly fond of tubes), I do like both the Ack Dack 1.2d and the 2.0 (I have both now). I wouldn't mind a test between TubeDac and an Ack Dack 2.0 on my own system, although I just got the 2.0 so it'll take a while to burn in.

Dmason · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 05:24 pm »

I would bet my eye teeth the Ack &(* wasnt burned in well enough. Once seasoned, it is pretty sweet, not at all eclipsed by the TubeDAC.

I do not understand why S Nixon has an aversion to batteries either, although considering he also sells add on quality PSU's, I would have to consider his opinion as potentially biased. YMMV.

Anyone hooking up with ANY of the non OS DAC's combined with Class D amplification is going to be way happy

let's not split hairs here.

The Asus Pundit R seems to be a fantastic place to start, and can be had, I see, for as little as $159. Add some memory and a CPU and you're in the game. Good lead there, Hantra!!

JeffB · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 05:43 pm »

Dmason says,
"battery DAC hardwired directly to the T-chip".

I don't mean to be hyper critical, but I am just afraid that I am missing something.

Wouldn't the DAC need to be wired to a volume control and the volume control wired to the T-chip?

Have you upgraded your volume control from the standard Clari-T volume control?

And what is OTA wiring?

skrivis · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

The benefits TO ME far outweigh. It sounds more like vinyl. The tube DAC adds more HF E, and winds up sounding ~closer to upsampling dreck. Batteries CLEARLY impart an immediacy which AC cannot. The water I drink comes from a reservoir in the fridge, after it has been processed and stored. It works better than the stuff with a current. Batteries are healthier for music, and "taste" better.

More like vinyl? Hmmm... I'll leave that one alone...

The description of water stored in the fridge also sounds like a good analogy for a standard linear power supply. Incoming AC is rectified, filtered, and stored in a "reservoir."

You can even think of a battery as a very slow capacitor. So I want fast capacitors some places, and slow ones in other places. I'm confused. LOL

byteme · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Apr 2005, 06:35 pm »

Quote

The tube DAC adds more HF E, and winds up sounding ~closer to upsampling dreck.

Sounds like it was a Tubedac + or a newer one with a switch to flop between the "std." tubedac and the "+" version in one unit. The "+" was specifically designed for those who are under the impression that the HF E as you call it needs to be there in order for the reproduction to be accurate. As you noted, it is designed to sound more like upsampling dreck.

I've got an older tubedac "std." which doesn't suffer from dreckification and unfortunately (or perhaps not), according to Scott, can't be powered by a battery.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm exceptionally pleased with the EA turbo modded 7700 for a transport with the Tubedac.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Apr 2005, 03:24 am »

Any discussion of the origins of or merits of the Ack vs the Nixon can proceed in Fight Club.