Which loudspeaker cable with 4Bcubed and long distance to speakers

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spartana

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Hi,
I need a longer loudspeaker cable since the distance between 4bcubed and loudspeakers will increase to 12 m / 39.5 ft. Vienna based Avitech suggested VanDamme with either 4 or 6sqmm. Does anybody have experience with these cables? Not that I want to pay more but the cable seems unusually reasonably priced in comparison to some high end stuff.
I would appreciate your opinion on this question,

Thanks,
Holger
« Last Edit: 18 Dec 2021, 09:55 pm by spartana »

James Tanner

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MEMO: To All Bryston Customers
SUBJECT: Speaker Cable – Rather Than Size – Length Matters

June 2020

What’s an Example of a Good Speaker Cable?

The Amplifier/Speaker interface is a ‘low impedance’ connection. Therefore, in a speaker cable you are looking for low ‘self inductance’ (because inductance rolls off the top end) as opposed to ‘low capacitance’ required in the RCA or XLR analogue interconnect.

Speaker cable should have very low series resistance, R, and series inductance, L, while shunt capacitance, C, is relatively unimportant in this low impedance, high current application. Shielding is almost a non-issue in speaker cables as signal levels are very large and circuit impedances very low.

Speaker cables, however, should be kept as short as possible to minimize power losses and the associated dynamic compression of the music signal.

Going from say 4 feet to 8 feet is a non-issue under most circumstances especially with adequate gauge wire.

Individually insulated wires should have a diameter less than AWG #18.  That means that the AWG number for all individually insulated wires must be higher than 18.  However, in order to keep cable resistance very low, the cable will have to be made up of many of these individual wires connected in parallel.  Also they must be woven in a manner that keeps inductance low.
 
If a choice must be made as to which of your cables should be made longer, always let the additional length be taken up with your interconnect cables.

We haven’t forgotten about the shunt conductance, G, of the speaker cable. This primary constant represents the conduction or leakage current between a cable’s conductors through a less than perfect dielectric material. As such, shunt conductance, G, is a bad thing as it contributes to signal loss. Fortunately, in any cable worth its salt, it is extremely small and can be ignored in most cases.


spartana

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Thanks, James. I was worried about the length. I just see no chance to overcome this. Hence I have to find a good solution for a cable that does no cause too many issues at this length.  :(

James Tanner

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Its a good subject and I am doing my next Newsletter on this.

james

spartana

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Looking forward to it  :D

JARSH

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Holger, if there is any way possible, I'd try to go with longer length "balanced" connections between your  preamp/processor and your 4B... keep the speaker cables as short as possible. 

From the USA site, the Van-Damme Classic XKE is a little over $1/M. for bulk cable. 
https://vandammecable.us/collections/all-bulk-cable/products/van-damme-pro-grade-classic-xke-1-pair-install-cable-black-per-meter

WGH

Kimber Kable is one of the companies that publish complete specifications of it's speaker cables. The 8TC example below will destroy your budget, about $1840.

The cable guage also depends on what speakers you use. I tested wire gauges on my Salk HT2-TL speakers using Kimber 4VS (13 guage) and Zenwave 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC speaker cables. Both sounded great, the Zenwave are slightly clearer but I discovered 13 and 14 gauge cables attenuate the bass, the Salk speakers has strong bass down to 34 Hz.

I currently use a double run of Kimber 4VS that has an aggregate wire size of 2-10 AWG cables. I used "Temple Caves" off of Mickey Hart's album "Planet Drum" as a test track. My old house had single pane glazed windows, using just the 13 AWG cable the bass was OK, the 10 AWG double run playing the same track made the glass rattle.

If your speakers don't go below 40 Hz then 14 AWG may work for you.



https://www.kimber.com/products/8TC

8TC HIGH CURRENT BRAIDED LOUDSPEAKER CABLE
16 strands of 19.5 AWG OFE (oxygen free electrolytic) copper with industry leading conductivity. (102% IACS).
Aggregate combination of 8, 19.5AWG strands≈9AWG per +/- leg.
Teflon insulation. White/Clear
LOW series induction design: 0.09 uH / meter

(Cp) parallel capacitance: 346 pF / meter
(Ls) series inductance: 0.09 uH / meter
(Rdc) dc loop resistance: 0.008 Ohm / meter


The bulk speaker cable sold by GR Research looks exactly like the Kimber Kable 8TC and is un-terminated. 80' is $780.00.
Give Danny a call.
https://www.gr-research.com/speaker-cables.html






ord.avg.guy

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WGH

Canare 4S11 would work.

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

Canare 4S11, 14 AWG star quad speaker cable
Polyethylene dielectric insulation
Conductor DC Resistance <2.6 Ohms per 1000' / 304.8 m
Nominal Capacitance 45.0 pF/ft
Series inductance <0.120uH/ft

redbook

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  I have attained great overall improvement with my 6 foot runs of Audioquest CV4 :thumb: This is the basic CV4.


« Last Edit: 20 Dec 2021, 03:45 am by redbook »

spartana

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Wow - thanks all for your replies!

Franky I am still stuck in the simple theory part. I wonder if e.g. a bigger diameter is in general benefitial in comparison to a smaller one when using longer speaker cable lengths. Somewhere I read that 6mm would be preferable over 4 mm in vase of 10+ meters.

What exactly makes a longe cable less ideal? Is it a loss of amplifier power? Again - sorry to maybe ask stupid stuff that everybody here knows. I simply don't.

My speakers donnot need high powers. The 300w of the 4B are way more than I ever need.

Also concerning the VanDamme I remember some relation with Bryston. Does Bryston use VanDamme or have Bryston branded cables produced @VanDamme?

James Tanner

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Wow - thanks all for your replies!

Franky I am still stuck in the simple theory part. I wonder if e.g. a bigger diameter is in general benefitial in comparison to a smaller one when using longer speaker cable lengths. Somewhere I read that 6mm would be preferable over 4 mm in vase of 10+ meters.

What exactly makes a longe cable less ideal? Is it a loss of amplifier power? Again - sorry to maybe ask stupid stuff that everybody here knows. I simply don't.

My speakers donnot need high powers. The 300w of the 4B are way more than I ever need.

Also concerning the VanDamme I remember some relation with Bryston. Does Bryston use VanDamme or have Bryston branded cables produced @VanDamme?

Hi Yes - we have used VanDamme cables in the past.

james

spartana

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Hi James,
Thanks. Does Bryston still offer the SC4 cable? I did not see it on your homepage.
Best regards,
Holger

James Tanner

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Hi James,
Thanks. Does Bryston still offer the SC4 cable? I did not see it on your homepage.
Best regards,
Holger

Hi - no sorry we only offered that for a short time.

james

PS my newsletter on speaker cables is available in a few days.

spartana

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Hi James,

Thanks. Looking forward to your newsletter. Would be great if different scenarios were considered. I understood that longer XLR cables would be preferable over longer speaker cables. In my case that is just not possible.
So for this scenario it would also be good to know what to do / consider, e.g. what parameters in longer speaker cables should be considered, etc.

Happy new year!

Holger