Amp power

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NoahH

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Amp power
« on: 25 Aug 2021, 02:30 pm »
Hi all,
Sounds like the parts for my NX-Tremes are shipping soon! I am building a new system around this so have a lot of freedom in the accompanying gear. I had been planning to do a lower power Elekit tube amp as the speakers are pretty sensitive, but I am finding myself questioning this and thinking I should go with something with more power like McIntosh, Pass Labs or Constellation.

Have any folks tried various power levels and have comments on how much the NX-TREMES like more juice?

Thanks!

Early B.

Re: Amp power
« Reply #1 on: 25 Aug 2021, 03:03 pm »
Generally speaking, you can power your NX-Tremes with 10 watts or a 1,000 watts or anything in between. My point is that amp power is a minor consideration. There are far more important factors. 

A better question is to ask forum members about their favorite amps within a given price range (i.e., your budget) and what they liked about them. You'll probably get more fruitful responses across the power gamut.


Tyson

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #2 on: 25 Aug 2021, 03:49 pm »
We drove the NX-Treme's at Danny's place with my Elekit 300b amp and it sounded great.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #3 on: 25 Aug 2021, 04:34 pm »
Lately we were running it off the new battery powered 10W chip amps, and they sound great!
I got one running a pair of Danny's N-3 towers in my apartment at the moment. Absolutely loving it.

Endo2112

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #4 on: 25 Aug 2021, 04:41 pm »

I ran mine with 32 watt Class A, and many watt Class D and they sounded great either way, i personally like extra horse power because by buddies tend to get heavy handed with the volume control. My questions would be;

-how big is your room?
-do you like to listen to Tool @ 95db as back ground music??

Cheers,

Don

mkrawcz

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #5 on: 25 Aug 2021, 05:02 pm »
The NX-Tremes wont care much about watts. The Elekit tu-8600 is a nice tube amp that is easy to build, I own one. But, you can also build a Folsom 7293 chip amp 60watts per channel for half the price of the Elekit and it beats it across the board. In fact the Folsom competes with many of the cost no object amps I have heard $20k and up. If you don't want to build an amp, the PS Audio BHK amps are amazing and they remain my reference powering my NX-Oticas. The Folsom is the only DIY amp I have tried that competes with them IMO. All that said, I think I know Danny's ears pretty well and chances are the chip amp he is about to offer is going to be on that level and they will be very low cost.

NoahH

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #6 on: 26 Aug 2021, 01:44 am »
Thanks for the quick responses. To answer some of the questions:

- the room is large. ~1500 sqft. Speakers are near the middle of the room (weird layout) and about 15 ft from main listening position

- I will want to go loud with these. I am doing these plus 6-driver tall sub stacks because I want old-school full range impact.

- I scoped the question to power levels as I know how much taste is involved in amps beyond that.

- I live in Boulder near PS Audio so could demo a BHK pretty easily. Have been meaning to anyways. I have an Ayre in my main system now so I like supporting local makers. ;)

- I would love kit options as I kinda want to do a pure-DIY setup for this, but I am relaxing that plan a little as I am unsure if the ANK DACs are really worthwhile and there are not many other good DAC kits

Thanks all!

Endo2112

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #7 on: 26 Aug 2021, 03:52 am »
If you're planning on running 6 stacks, your main power amp issues will be minimized for sure as you won't be asking the 160's to cover the whole lower section, I might get Danny to make you a cut off filter. I've run duals, triples and quads for subs and the difference between them as you move up the driver ladder(so to speak), is quite profound,  you're in for a treat!! I'm wheeling the quads back into the living room tomorrow actually, wonder if the boss(wife) will notice, to say nothing of the folks next door??

Don

Early B.

Re: Amp power
« Reply #8 on: 26 Aug 2021, 02:56 pm »
- I will want to go loud with these.

OK, then get an amp with enough power where there's a 100% chance it won't ever wimp out on you.

mlundy57

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #9 on: 26 Aug 2021, 04:39 pm »
OK, then get an amp with enough power where there's a 100% chance it won't ever wimp out on you.

Determine the loudest level you want the music to be and how far from the speakers you want this peak level to be at. Then you can calculate how many watts will be required to reach the target SPL at the given distance based on the speakers sensitivity with plenty of headroom to spare so the amp never distorts let alone clips.

For example, you want to hit peaks of 105dB at four meters (12ft) from a speaker with a sensitivity of 94dB into 8 ohms:

This means the speaker will put out 94dB at a distance of one meter with one watt of power. As I understand it, adding a second speaker will increase the output by 6dB at one meter. So with both speakers playing, one watt will give an SPL of 100dB.

Next, for every doubling of the distance, the SPL drops by 6dB. This means that at two meters from the speakers the SPL will be 94 and at the target distance of four meters the SPL will be 88dB.

Next is to determine the amount of power needed to reach the target of 105dB. To do this you need to increase the volume by 17dB. For every 3dB of increase the power needs to double.

1W   = 88dB
2W   = 91dB
4W   = 94dB
8W   = 97dB
16W = 100dB
32W = 103dB
64W = 106dB

Next you need to allow for enough headroom to keep the amp in it's zone of linearity (the area where the distortion of the amp is relatively flat). With tube amps, the distortion curve stays relatively flat through the first half of it's power output then increases sharply in the second half. The zone of linearity for a solid state amp is roughly 10% -20% of it's power output.

So to reach 106dB at four meters, a tube amp would need at least 128 watts and a solid state amp 320 - 640 watts depending on the distortion curve of the amp.


Early B.

Re: Amp power
« Reply #10 on: 26 Aug 2021, 05:31 pm »
Good info, Mike.

Here's the rub -- there's no standard definition and measurement process for speaker sensitivity. It's not practical to compare one manufacturer's speaker sensitivity to another. In fact, many manufacturers inflate their speaker sensitivity stats for marketing purposes.

OK, so what do you do? The answer is: experiment. Over the next couple of years, you may cycle through several amps until you find what you're looking for. And once you find it, you'll hold onto that amp for a while before the cycle begins again.  Oh, I know what you're thinking -- "I'm different," you say to yourself. Yeah, self-delusion is the first symptom. Welcome to the insane asylum for audio gear nuts.   

NoahH

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #11 on: 27 Aug 2021, 01:48 am »
Has anyone paired a tube McIntosh amp with the NX-tremes?

lincolnmat

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #12 on: 29 Sep 2021, 02:39 am »
I have not used a McIntosh tube amp with my NX-Oticas, but I do use an Audio Research Ref75SE. The 75 watts are plenty - and the NC-tremes are even higher sensitivity. With some digital content I'm happy with the volume on my preamp at 10 out of 103. For vinyl I'm normally around 40.

NoahH

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Re: Amp power
« Reply #13 on: 29 Sep 2021, 04:08 am »
Thanks for the point of reference!