Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!

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Early B.

Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« on: 7 Oct 2020, 01:36 pm »
My system was working fine on Monday night. Before I turned it on, the right speaker was humming and the right amp was cool to the touch instead of warm, as usual, and the power light was on. [I have two stereo amps that are run in mono mode - they're always on] I played a CD and sound seemed to only come out of the left speaker. I powered everything down and unplugged the power from the wall. Plugged it back up, same thing. Cables OK. I removed the right amp to visually inspect it. Everything appears OK. No smell of burned caps. 

Then I switched the left amp for the right one and I got a hum from the left speaker and low sound. Same thing happened when I swapped the speaker cables and the IC to hook up the right speaker. Then I plugged the left amp back up and the sound was loud. This narrowed it down as the right amp being the culprit. 

Bottom line -- I'm getting speaker hum and a low sound from both speakers when the right amp is plugged into them. Any suggestions as to what the problem could be?

Thanks.


I believe I narrowed down the problem which is my right amp. What am I missing?

richidoo

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #1 on: 7 Oct 2020, 02:43 pm »
Good detective work!!  :thumb:
Yup, sounds like amp is damaged. Sorry!

Did you have a lightning storm?   

Oh wait, I reread your OP and see that you are running them in bridged mono. That's the most likely explanation. Even tho your AC review says they are "8ohm nominal," your system description says it has variable tweeter level and upgraded crossovers which will affect the impedance. "8ohm nominal" is just a marketing term, it doesn't mean "minimum 8 ohm impedance."  It could dip to 3 or 4 ohms at resonance and still be mostly 6 ohms which the mfg might call nominal 8 ohms. It's the 3 ohm dip that kills bridged amps.  You can create a true speaker impedance graph with a tool like DATS from partsexpress. It's the output transistors that usually fail in bridged amp.

Early B.

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #2 on: 7 Oct 2020, 03:09 pm »
Did you have a lightning storm?   

Nope, no lightening storm.

Not sure about the impedance. Amps have been fine for the past couple of years. 

dflee

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #3 on: 7 Oct 2020, 03:27 pm »
Happened to me running a Coda four channel in bridged mode
on 4 Ohm speakers. Even sending it back to them (over 500 bucks)
only cured it for a short time running stereo. Sad to say trashed the
amp and haven't come up with anything sound wise to replace.
Good luck with the repair and I hope you don't have the same ending I had.
Reading the lit on your amp does state it can handle a 4 Ohm load in mono though.

Don

richidoo

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #4 on: 7 Oct 2020, 05:36 pm »
In bridge mode the load feels twice as hard as it really is. So the output transistors see twice the current, so they can easily overheat if cooling isn't adequate. What overheats and breaks is the microscopically fine wires inside the transistor case that are connecting the big i/o pins to the actual silicon transistor inside the device case:



A bass drum hit and the resulting current spike create instantaneous heat in the silicon, but it takes time for the heat to move from silicon to device mounting plate to heatsink to air. In that time the high heat can melt that fine hookup wire inside the transistor device. Having bigger heatsink wouldn't matter because it takes a relatively long time for heat to get from silicon to heatsink. The current we're talking about is coming in and out on those tiny hookup wires inside the transistor. For a given volume level, the current through the transistor is double so there is double the amount of heat in the silicon when the amp is run in bridged mode. The fine wires can fail instantly, or they can be weakened over multiple heat events then fail randomly.

The range of voltage, current and heat transfer rate that the transistor can operate safely without rick of thermal failure is called the Safe Operating Area. Running amp in normal mode there is no risk of exiting the SOA, but running in bridged mode can leave the SOA and risk damage. That's why the min load impedance must be reduced, to maintain operation within SOA.

I think there should more warning about the risks of running bridged, but a warning makes the amp look fragile which would affect sales so the risk seems to be minimized more often than not. Many hifi amps try avoid using a protection relay on the output because it usually uses tungsten contacts which are a poor conductor and can affect SQ, especially after they get pitted from opening and closing under load.

Frank Van Alstine (avahifi) has posted in the past about the benefits and dangers of bridged mono operation. You can search his posts.

Early B.

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #5 on: 7 Oct 2020, 06:14 pm »
I'm thinking since the amp is designed to be run in mono mode with a 4 ohm load, it shouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, heat is always a factor.

I'm sending the amp back to the factory for repair.   

richidoo

Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #6 on: 7 Oct 2020, 06:25 pm »
designed to be run in mono mode with a 4 ohm load

That's very impressive!  :thumb:
I hope it's something minor.

lancruiser_

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 16
Re: Amp Down!!! Amp Down!!!
« Reply #7 on: 8 Oct 2020, 12:06 am »
Early B,
 Before you send the amp back, perform a few tests first (the manufacturer might ask these questions) a voltmeter if you have one is your best friend here. Disconnect the amp from the load and measure the dc offset at the output terminals, if it is below ~20mvdc you have passed the first step. Next measure the ac voltage output of your "working" amp with a low level of input (music, pink noise, etc) and compare it to your "suspect" amplifier. If there is significant difference, you have a malfunctioning amp. Under NO circumstances should you re-connect the suspect amp to a load you care about. Loudspeakers tolerate very little dc voltage (50w or better non inductive 4 or 8 ohm resistors should verify functionality).