[UtopiaNemo]

I’ve been looking at building a speaker kit for a few years now, as LCR replacements for my beloved Epos Epic 2’s, as part of a 7.4.2 Dolby Atmos system that I use for both music and movie listening. Initially, the impetus to upgrade came because the Epic 2’s seem to lose dynamics at high output, and sound just a little bit strained up there.

Up until recently, all of my searching was done on a different audio enthusiast website, which had a DIY section that was dominated by posts about a certain other DIY speaker company that creates a lot of high sensitivity, high output speakers. 

This seemed to be exactly what I wanted.....but then I started learning about GR-Research.

Now I’m in a quandary. When I research speakers from the other company, almost all the descriptions talk about how great they sound at high volumes, how clean and detailed and dynamic they are. When I read up on GR-Research speakers, I primarily hear about how they image, their soundstage, their sense of presence, their detail and “air”, and how they handle voices. These are things I also want in a speaker.

So I’m kind of at a loss. I’ve never heard/read anybody talk about how GR-Research’s speakers sound at loud volumes, or how dynamic they are when pushed....I should say that because I have to put my speakers on a cabinet close to my front wall and flanking my TV, I’m not looking at Danny’s larger and/or OB speakers. As far as I can tell, an A/V or Encore series MTM would offer the most output and dynamics for my particular setup.

I think I’m looking at three possible options: 1) Go with the loud and dynamic speaker kit and keep GR Research in mind for the future when I may have the space to let a speaker breathe,
2) Go with the loud and dynamic speaker kit and send it to Danny for a crossover upgrade, or
3) Get a GR Research kit because that’s really the one I’ll be the most satisfied with.

So what can you good folks tell me? How do the AV-2 or 3 Or Encore MTM sound when pushed? How are their dynamics? Is there another GR Research speaker design I should be looking at? My Epic 2’s have a 1” silk dome tweeter and a 6”-7” woofer. They sound very smooth and have a warm and detailed midrange. I love MTM designs and I figured having that second woofer would help with overall output. TBH I was really eyeing the X-Voce center, but I was afraid its OB design would create issues with it being so close to the front wall (17” or so).

[UtopiaNemo]

Two clarifications: 1) it’s closer to 12” to the front wall, not 17”. Also I have framed Fiberglass treatments on the front wall behind those speakers now.

[corndog71]

X-CS Encore for fronts and center would be more than enough to do the job.  I had a pair of them for stereo use and drove them plenty loud with a 35 watt tube amp.  They also had a surprising amount of bass due to their sealed cabinets.

[UtopiaNemo]

X-CS Encore for fronts and center would be more than enough to do the job.  I had a pair of them for stereo use and drove them plenty loud with a 35 watt tube amp.  They also had a surprising amount of bass due to their sealed cabinets.

Which one is the X-CS? The only Encore I can see on the is the X-LS, even though I read there’s an MTM version in existence.

[UtopiaNemo]

Also, what are the main physical and aural differences between the AV-2 and the X-CS Encore? The woofers and tweeters seem to be similar sizes. Are they ported or sealed?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Which one is the X-CS? The only Encore I can see on the is the X-LS, even though I read there’s an MTM version in existence.

You can call or email to Danny to ask about it, its not currently on the website, but will be once the new site is finished.

Also, what are the main physical and aural differences between the AV-2 and the X-CS Encore? The woofers and tweeters seem to be similar sizes. Are they ported or sealed?

The AV series use a different tweeter (GR-T3) along with the smaller M-130 woofer and use a slightly narrower cabinet 8" vs 8.5".
While the X-series uses the larger M-165 woofer and the Peerless T26SG tweeter. I believe the AV-2 is ported, while the X-CS and AV-3S are both sealed designs.

The X-series tweeter will have better detail and a cleaner top end esp in the 10K-20K Hz range. The larger woofers also helps with the lower end extension a bit, but should be pretty similar as they're both have paper cones and plastic frames.

[corndog71]

[Jon L]

Two clarifications: 1) it’s closer to 12” to the front wall, not 17”. Also I have framed Fiberglass treatments on the front wall behind those speakers now.

Epos is a highly regarded brand, and you've probably read Robert J Reina's Stereophile Review.  They are also one of the few bookshelf speakers that actually measure at their (high) 90dB sensitivity rating. 

Unless you can completely change your room/cabinet setup and go with much larger speakers well away from walls, I would first try some decent isolation/coupling footers under the speakers.  As volume goes up, the speakers' interaction with cabinet/wall often contributes to the sensation of "strain," distortion.
Even if you end up getting new speakers, you will need something along these lines:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088K6LG5L/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B088K6LG5L&pd_rd_w=DH79p&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=ambbB&pf_rd_r=GSWNFDRA17WHNGWT443W&pd_rd_r=4a735375-f3d6-4c0a-814e-39b3131d5076&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSkQwRlBFRjY3VU9LJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODk5NjI2MTlDSzFYT1E3QVdGNiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkzNTI0M0hZMEYyNVQyUVVKVSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[UtopiaNemo]

Epos is a highly regarded brand, and you've probably read Robert J Reina's Stereophile Review.  They are also one of the few bookshelf speakers that actually measure at their (high) 90dB sensitivity rating. 

Unless you can completely change your room/cabinet setup and go with much larger speakers well away from walls, I would first try some decent isolation/coupling footers under the speakers.  As volume goes up, the speakers' interaction with cabinet/wall often contributes to the sensation of "strain," distortion.
Even if you end up getting new speakers, you will need something along these lines:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088K6LG5L/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B088K6LG5L&pd_rd_w=DH79p&pf_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5&pd_rd_wg=ambbB&pf_rd_r=GSWNFDRA17WHNGWT443W&pd_rd_r=4a735375-f3d6-4c0a-814e-39b3131d5076&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSkQwRlBFRjY3VU9LJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODk5NjI2MTlDSzFYT1E3QVdGNiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkzNTI0M0hZMEYyNVQyUVVKVSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Rob Reina’s and Sam Tellig’s Stereophile reviews were the main reason I bought them (and the fact that they eventually were 1/2 off). They’re great speakers. They have a very nice midrange. The cabinet and driver size are almost the same as the A/V-2, in spite of the A/V-2 having an extra driver.

I’ll try better isolation. When I started out with my system, having cabinetry like that was super appealing. It’s now become a hindrance, but since the listening/movie room is also the kids’ play area, I’m limited in what I can do with the front wall and speaker placement. 

[corndog71]

I’m a big fan of Isoacoustics speaker stands.  These are another alternative.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IsoPuckMini--isoacoustics-iso-puck-mini-vibration-isolator-for-small-studio-monitors-and-speakers

[Danny Richie]

These guys are correct. The dual woofer X-CS model will easily handle the output levels and dynamics that you're looking for.

Imaging and sound stage layering will be held back by the placement restraints that you have, but that will be the same for any speakers.

[UtopiaNemo]

These guys are correct. The dual woofer X-CS model will easily handle the output levels and dynamics that you're looking for.

Imaging and sound stage layering will be held back by the placement restraints that you have, but that will be the same for any speakers.

Danny, what is the pricing for the X-CS kit, and also the crossover and any other upgrades? If this is something that should be handled by PM or phone call, let me know.