[ebag4]

I am considering framing in a part of a basement garage to gain a larger listening space.  My current space is a 10.5'x12.5'x8', the new space could be as large as 11'x21.5' with a jut out of 4'x13' for 15' in width for 13' of the room length. Ceiling is 8'.

What are your thoughts, would this size space be a noticeable improvement over the current room?

Opinions welcome.

Best,
Ed

[thorman]

One thing about a Basement is, if your Furnace is in the area, you have to listen to that noise all the time . Mostly in Winter...In Basements, which are normally a Dead Room , room treating becomes much more tricky and important ( I think ) ......Think long and hard before moving, specially if your current room is quiet and sounds decent....If you chose to move downstairs, be prepared for spending time and money to work the room . I have large open basement set up 26' x20' x 8'  and it works fairly well, but it take time to figure it out......
 The good thing is my Wife no longer complains about loud music...That is the best reward...Good Luck

[srb]

..... the new space could be as large as 11'x21.5' with a jut out of 4'x13' for 15' in width for 13' of the room length.

I'm a little confused.  Is the jut-out 4' H x 13' W with a 15 inch depth?

[Jonathon Janusz]

Most folks will probably chime in with a blanket "bigger is always better".

At a glance, I'd guess that the extra depth would give your open baffle speakers more space behind, which seems to generally be a good thing.

Have you checked out any of the online room calculators to see where (based on proposed room dimensions) your advantages and or challenges might be compared to your existing room?

New construction gives you a chance to go all in on treatment, sound isolation, and power/data management at the lowest long-term cost of entry.

This may sound like a silly question, but I'm presuming based on your current room/setup that you listen alone?  Is this a hobby that more people in the family/household might enjoy?  Would the proposed new room give you space to add a few more seats to share the music with?



srb, if I'm reading Ed's post correctly, it means he would end up with a room that would start as 15' wide for 13 feet of length, then would narrow to 11' wide for the last 8.5' (21.5' total length).

[ebag4]

I'm a little confused.  Is the jut-out 4' H x 13' W with a 15 inch depth?

Sorry, maybe this will help clarify.  This is my current space:


This is what I am considering:



Best,
Ed

[ebag4]

Most folks will probably chime in with a blanket "bigger is always better".

At a glance, I'd guess that the extra depth would give your open baffle speakers more space behind, which seems to generally be a good thing.

Have you checked out any of the online room calculators to see where (based on proposed room dimensions) your advantages and or challenges might be compared to your existing room?
I have not, this idea has just started percolating 

New construction gives you a chance to go all in on treatment, sound isolation, and power/data management at the lowest long-term cost of entry.

This may sound like a silly question, but I'm presuming based on your current room/setup that you listen alone?  Is this a hobby that more people in the family/household might enjoy?  Would the proposed new room give you space to add a few more seats to share the music with?
This is part of what is being considered, my son and I enjoy listening together.


srb, if I'm reading Ed's post correctly, it means he would end up with a room that would start as 15' wide for 13 feet of length, then would narrow to 11' wide for the last 8.5' (21.5' total length). yes, this is correct

Thanks,
Ed

[timind]

A few years ago I had my system in a small room nearly identical to yours and I was pretty happy with the sound. After all the kids moved out I setup a system in the family room which was 18x15x9 and extended into the kitchen for another 20 feet or so. I absolutely loved the sound in that room, and that was before doing any acoustic treatments.

If that room is going to be yours, and yours alone, I say go for it. Be prepared to upgrade your speakers if you're using monitors. I had to increase speaker size considerably. Not a bad thing, just expensive.

[Jonathon Janusz]

This is part of what is being considered, my son and I enjoy listening together.

This would be what would get me to go for it.  Building the space into acoustic awesomeness becomes the hobby part.  I know you just built some new speakers, and I do know how you like building stuff, so maybe this is the stars aligning to give you something to occupy your time until the next speaker project comes along. 

[gregfisk]

Ed,

I wouldn't hesitate for a moment, yes most people would say go for it and there is a GOOD reason. You have OB speakers like I do and they need room to breath!

My room is 19' x 31' and my Super V's sound absolutely amazing in that room.

And if your son is into music like my Daughter is then you have two really good reasons to move your system.

No, you have three good reasons, your wife will be happy too and you know what they say about a happy wife

Best regards,

Greg

[JLM]

Read Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction."  I should stop right there, it's such a good reference.


Bigger is better as it reduces room effects, but the right shape is huge for reducing bass echo.

With monopoles ("traditional" front firing box speakers) my first impression would be to use the 13ft x 15ft space, even walling off the 8.5ft x 11ft space.  But with dipoles (including open baffle) I'd be inclined to use the whole space and set up the speakers in the larger end and aim into the smaller end.

My 8ft x 13ft x 21ft study (dedicated to my listening/office functions) was created when we built 13 years ago.  I followed Cardas for room design and near-field setup.  It also has a notch in the back corner, but only 2.5ft x 5ft.  Note that my room ratios is a Fibonacci Sequence.  The ancient Greeks built their temples in a 5:8 ratio that they called the "Golden Greek Rectangle" (which is the beginning of a Fibonacci Sequence). 

Once the shape is set, the next step is to acoustically isolate the room from the rest of the house.  For walls that adjoined other interior spaces I used staggered stud walls that were insulated with fiberglass batts.  Also used exterior insulated fiberglass door with weather strips.  The drywall ceiling is was supposed to be suspended from the joists using gauge metal furring strips (but the builder refused).  The one mistake I made was including recessed can lights in the ceiling.  Although the joist space is nicely insulated and the cans are rated to be air tight and in contact with insulation they are NOT acoustically tight, so my advice is to use all wall sconces.  On the plus side the ductwork to the room is insulated/lined flexible duct which resulted in nearly zero furnace fan noise in the room.  While I was at it (3) 20 amp dedicated audio circuits were installed, each serving a single cryo'd hospital grade duplex receptacle, all 3 are connected to a dedicated ground.  Note that we're in the country and have our own transformer.  With relatively cheap commercial carpet the room was the cheapest finished space in the house.

Overall I very pleased with the room and near-field setup.  My single driver (8 inch, no whizzer, so high frequencies "beam") transmission line cabinet monopoles that I commissioned before we built are ideal for this application (point source at ear level with bass roll off that matches room gain), but my 2-way active monitors also do very well there.  My (6) GIK 244 panels are nearly useless in this room (although they are very effective elsewhere).  I've been able to move the speakers quite wide (10ft in a 13ft wide room and roughly 100 degrees apart) to increase soundstage size. 

Another excellent room (although much more involved/expensive) is Big Red's.  Its been reported that bass response in his room is quite excellent.  Hopefully he'll pipe up.

[FullRangeMan]

I am considering framing in a part of a basement garage to gain a larger listening space.  My current space is a 10.5'x12.5'x8', the new space could be as large as 11'x21.5' with a jut out of 4'x13' for 15' in width for 13' of the room length. Ceiling is 8'.

What are your thoughts, would this size space be a noticeable improvement over the current room?

Opinions welcome.

Best,
Ed

LArger premises always good, see this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=107352.msg1183456#msg1183456

[bpape]

The additional width at the 15' end would be very welcome and allow for a wider soundstage and reduced wall interactions - not to mention the space behind the speakers and more importantly, the space behind you.

[ebag4]

Thanks for the responses guys, many good points.  I had a pretty good idea that the responses would run that direction. 

There are several largish hurdles should I decide to go that direction, impact on the current living space and the loss of garage space, I will have the weigh the pros and cons. 


Thanks for the responses.

Best,
Ed

[thunderbrick]

Where do you live?  If you have cold winters that floor will get a little chilly.  Is the floor sloped for drainage? if so it'll be a PITA to keep things level.

[ebag4]

Well, she that shall be obeyed has given me permission to move my audio rig into a much larger space.  I no longer have to consider building out a portion of the garage, what I lose is total control of the space.  From what I have heard so far the trade off will be worth it.  I am currently set up based on cardas spacing recommendations for dipoles.  The soundstage is larger, much wider sweet spot and seems to be easier to listen to (?) based on initial impressions.

This is what the space looks like:


It is open to the kitchen and the foyer.

Best,
Ed

[gregfisk]

Ed, I just spent several minutes writing out a reply and at the end hit the mouse with my elbow and now it's gone. " I hate my elbow right now"

Anyway, for you I will write it again.

It looks like you have almost the same room dimensions I do. Mine are 19'x31'x10' and from what I can tell our speaker and sitting positions are very close. I also used the Cardas rule to set up my room. I don't know if room treatments are a possibility but they do make a big different in that the music is much more focused and a lot cleaner and less smeared.

Either way I would focus on toe in. Now that Iv'e got that right, the music will hit my 6" GIK absorption  panels at the first reflection points and then actually go around me with some songs and some artists. It's a pretty neat experience for sure and something I'm not sure you can get in a small room.

Good luck with your new space and I believe you are going to be very happy to have a larger room.

Take Care,

Greg

[Jonathon Janusz]

Congrats!  This might be an even better solution than the build out, as now you can enjoy music while doing kitchen stuff too!

Are both the side rooms open to the main space as illustrated, or are they enclosed (walled off with doors)?  Where are any windows/doors on the long wall opposite the side rooms?  Off the cuff without measurements and such, if it would work, some art panel absorbers at the first reflection area on the long wall might balance out the effect of the open space on the other (bumped out room) side to keep the audiophile stuff to a minimum if need be, with the goal of acoustic symmetry without going crazy treating the (clearly shared) room.

I like that you found that your sweet spot is now wider with this setup; mission accomplished then making a great listening area for two (or three).