[Carlman]

My wife thinks it would be nice to have a DVD recorder for shows we wouldn't normally buy but wouldn't mind recording if it were on, we were there, and had a blank DVD lying around.... Kind of like the ol' VHS days.  I thought it might be a good idea to ask if anyone had any recommendations on a recorder player... and what it's limitations are.

Can you record off a cable box just like you could with a VCR?  Also, is there such a thing as recording from HD onto a DVD recorder?

Just hoping to get up to date enough to see if this is worth getting as a Christmas gift.

Thanks,
Carl

[Rob Babcock]

I've been ogling the new Pioneer; it burns at 16X, plus has an 80 GB HD.  You can also use it to start recording, then watch the beginning as the rest records to HD (they call it "chasing play").

[wshuff]

I've been using a Panasonic E80 for about two months now.  It is a DVD-R, DVD-Ram recorder with an 80GB hard drive.  I wouldn't give up the hard drive for anything.  It allows one to record and edit before burning, and, as long as you don't let it fill up, you can always record on spur of the moment.  I've had a few occasions where something came on and I could just hit record, without worrying about finding a blank disc.  Very handy.  I've also come to like DVD-Ram.  Ram is rewritable, so I can burn to Ram and do my editing.  My recorder doesn't allow high speed dubbing from a DVD-R back to the HD, but I can high speed dub from Ram to the HD.  That way I can edit a program the way I want, and if it is something that I may want to make copies of again in the future, I can save a master, so to speak, on Ram.

I've burned about 50 progams so far, and have had only a few coasters, none do to machine malfunctions or poor quality media.  The only discs that have been ruined are ones that I've cut short before they finished.

If you really want some information on the different brands and features available, check the AVS Forum DVD Recorders section.  I've picked up quite a bit there.  It's an especially welcome resource given how bad my manual is.

[Rob Babcock]

It seems to me that given a good sized hard drive you wouldn't even really need to burn a lot of stuff.  Much of the stuff you'd probably just watch off of HD, then delete.  Big deals (eg the Superbowl, NCAA Final Four) you could strip of commercials and burn to disc for posterity.

One thing I'm not sure is if the Pioneer will use DVD-RWs.  They can be reused thousands of times, although periodically you must do a "full erase" on them.  The advantage, if it'll use them, is that RWs are widely compatible in a range of players where RAMs are almost unusable in any most players.

The Panny is supposed to be an excellent unit, though.  I'd love to have one.  The only reason I'd take the Pioneer is that in my experience, Pioneer is the most reliable brand with a wider range of media.

[wshuff]

It is true that Ram isn't really compatible with anything except some Pannies.  I think RW is similar, but from what I have read on AVS, Ram may provide some editing capabilities that RW doesn't, like RAM can be a sort of removable HD.

But the way I use RAM, and the way I think other Pannie owners use it, is as a master.  If it is a program that you may want to keep, then record it to RAM.  You can then high speed dub it back to the HD as many times as you want.  Once you get it to the HD, then you can burn it to DVD-R, and that is pretty compatible with DVD players in general.  I've not had any difficulty playing my DVD-Rs in my Pioneer DV-45A, my Pannie RP82, and my Denon 2900.  The alternative is to burn things you want to save to DVD-R, but then if you need to make another copy, you have to real time dub it back to the HD (at least on my Pannie--newer models may be different), which requires that the program be re-encoded.  

It is also true that I find myself recording things to the HD, watching them, then erasing them without burning them to anything.  Having a hard drive in the recorder really gives you two devices in one--a PVR, and a DVD recorder.

[Tonto Yoder]

...It is also true that I find myself recording things to the HD, watching them, then erasing them without burning them to anything. Having a hard drive in the recorder really gives you two devices in one--a PVR, and a DVD recorder.

In hindsight, I might have gone a similar route.  I first bought a 40 hr Tivo unit, but found myself wanting to keep a few programs I had recorded and bought a Panasonic DVD recorder (EMR-55 ?).  I find that I don't use the DVD-Ram much: disposable programs get Tivoed and erased, while "archival" programs get Tivoed and transferred to DVD-R.

The all-in-one solution seems attractive; a unit with Tivo, hard drive and recorder seems very attractive but not inexpensivie.

[hmen]

I have the Panasonic (can't remember the model #) with the 80GB hard drive. The hard drive is really great. I just record everything on the HD and when I want to keep something I just write it to a DVD. It's really easy to edit out the comercials. I would definitely get something with a hard drive no matter what brand you buy.

[Carlman]

Wow! Thanks for the great advice and info.  I have a Panasonic XR-25 receiver so, I'd prefer to go with another Panny to keep the remote situation under control.

I noticed you can get bigger HD's for more money.. The E85HS for instance is 120G for 459 vs. the E80 w/ 80G for 359.. You can go to 160G also... I wonder if there's a way to plug in an external HD.

Speaking of HD... I wasn't specifically talking about 'hard drive' in my original post...  However, I'm glad I did because the hard drive idea makes perfect sense.

However, I meant 'High Definition'... Since I watch a lot of HDTV programming, I was wondering if I could copy it to DVD in that format.

When you copy to a DVD player, does it just record whatever screen format is presented or does it do something to it?  Since DVD isn't as high of a resolution as HDTV, does that present any real problem?  That's what I was getting at...

Thanks,
Carl

[wshuff]

Carl,

You can't record HD on a DVD-R, but from the posts from people on AVS, you can get very good results recording High Def material at the highest quality setting on the DVD recorder.

I don't believe that anybody has figured out how to add an external hard drive yet, and most likely won't.  There are several posts about the possibility of adding a larger HD to a unit, say upgrade that 80GB HD to a new 160GB model.  Unfortunately, all reports are that the firmware in the recorder will automatically format the new HD to the original drive capacity.  In other words, if I popped a 160GB drive in my Pannie to replace the original 80GB drive, the Pannie would format it as an 80GB drive.  Since many of these models share all features and the only difference is the size of the HD, the companies have made sure that people can't buy a cheap model and then upgrade it to the larger capacity of the more expensive models.  Another thing is that it appears that the machine will automatically reformat any drive that is put in, so if you take your original drive out, put in another drive, then try to replace your original drive, it will be reformatted and you will lose anything on it.  I'm not sure whether that last is universal and confirmed or only suspected, but I do remember it being brought up when somebody suggested having several drives to swap out.  For instance, perhaps just record things to the HD, and rather than burning to a DVD and worrying about fitting everything on, just keep things archived on the HD, and swap it out when you want to play it.  Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like that is an option.

The good news, though, is that several people have had success replacing failed hard drives with parts they buy online, rather than from the company at a significant markup.  I believe the hard drive used in my particular Pannie model has been reported to be an ordinary Maxtor unit.

On using RAM for editing.  You can do all your editing on the HD, but there are several posts on AVS about a particular problem if you do too much editing, specifically removing commercials using a Pannie's "shorten segment" function.  Too much editing can lead to fragmentation of the HD and has caused people to experience situations where they cannot dub to DVD, evidently because the program they recorded after editing out commercials on a prior program got recorded in the gaps.  In other words, the portion of the program that was erased was then used by the machine to record the new show, and that led to problems with dubbing.  People have also reported that these type problems become a concern as the HD gets filled up.  Some people have reported that their recorders performed automatic reformatting of the HD, erasing all of their programs.  

That's why I now record to HD, then if it is something that I want to edit and burn to DVD-R, I will first burn it to RAM.  Then I do all my editing on the RAM disc and dub the completed program back to my HD.  From there I can burn the edited program to DVD-R.  So far I have done that with the entire season of Lost, most of the episodes of Scrubs, and a few specials.  Once I get it on DVD-R, I erase the program from the HD, thereby keeping my HD from getting anywhere near full.  I've not had any problems (knock on wood) and hope that this process will keep me from having any of the problems reported on AVS.

Of course, you don't have to do it the way I do, and plenty of people do all of their editing right on the HD without incident.  It is good, though, to be aware of the possible pitfalls.

[JoshK]

I wanted to buy a DVDR for similar reasons as you Carl, ended up buying the E80 with the HD builtin and since I bought it I haven't used the DVD-R feature but once.  The HD recording is indespenseable in my opinion.  It has completely changed the way my wife and I watch TV and means we spend a lot less time on the couch.  

I go onto the website of the provider in question and get a program of all the TV shows I care to watch, program them to record on an ongoing basis (recording over the old watched ones).  Then I watch stuff off the HD rather than live TV so I can skip over all the commercials.  Makes a 30 minute program into about 15-20m.  60m -> about 40m.  You end up not watching stupid programs waiting for the one you want to watch to come on as well.