Grand 6 and which amp??

kenscott30 · « **on:** 20 Oct 2004, 09:42 pm »

Dear List,

I am trying to get a system together and this is what I own right now.

Music fidelity xray v.3 CD player
CI-Audio VPC1 (passive pre-amp)
Adcom 5400 ss amp (125watts)

...I have been thinking of using my adcom 5400 (125watts) solid state amp and BUYING speakers (Von Schweikert VR-1 or thiel 1.6) I listen to mostly male/female vocals (sting, annie lenox, david grey, coldplay, U2, everything but the girl, beth orton etc)

so then I came across Omega speakers after I thought about building or buying a cheap tube amp. I think I will sell the adcom. I thought about getting either of the above speakers and building the tube amp and later getting a pr of Omegas. I would like to build a great budget system. So now I am thinking (after talking to louis) that I go for the Grand 6 speakers and a cheap tube amp (sell the adcom and wait on the VR-1 and the Thiels). He liked the bottlehead Paramour Parafeed SE 2A3. There is also the jolida 102b, and I thought about the dared VP-20 (they look great) and even the Antique Sound labs WAVE AV-20 DT. All the amps are about $500-600 (the bottle head has an upgrade for 219).

I don't know what to do.

I have never built an amp before. I am not an electrical engineer. I could do it if it was cheaper than buying one...All I want to do is listen to great music and not spend too much money. I should look good, image great and have some bass. My room isn't too big, I can't play it too loud because I live in a Apt building. I would go for a cheaper amp but I don't think that it would cut it.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post. I am just tired of looking at my audio stuff in the corner.

Ken

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 11:00 pm »

For any listening levels below lease breaking a 2 wpc SET (tube) Decware SE84C for $500 assembled or $400 in kit form would be very nice with the Grande 6. It even comes with a small volume control on the back so the C I Audio passive pre amp wouldn't be needed. http://decware.com/

Scott Nixon sells 20 wpc stereo chip amps for $400 that should work very well with the C I Audio passive pre amp. http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm

Dmason · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 11:42 pm »

Anything Fostex would be a great bet. Louis is the man!

Building a tube amp straight off, with no prior experience, on the other hand might be playing with fire, literally, unless you are very comfortable mucking around with open voltages in excess of 400V which can kill a toob noob stone dead.

I would go for a Decware, if your heart is set on a tube amp. You might want to try the obscure but very fine JVC SA-X1 which has the wondrous hybrid digital amp in it for 30 watts, a sub out, aux out, a tuner, CDP, tone controls, bass boost, and can be had for about $125 online. Its sonic signature is startlingly close to the Zen sound, but with far better speaker control, and adds some balls to the low end of the Fostex. This would be my advice. As far as I am concerned, with this JVC stuff available, no need for tubes.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 12:29 am »

Another tube option, although I have no experience with them, is the Mapletree stuff (they have a forum here too). The 5wpc amp is $400 kit/$500 assembled.

Are you specifying a tube amp for a particular reason? If you always wanted to have one, you'll probably need to get it out of your system and have the experience of owning one (they are very cool). If you think they sound best or are required for Omegas, you might want to reconsider. Buy a cheap digital amp ($100 or less) instead (you can DIY it with a Tripath eval board if you want to) and perhaps buy an inexpensive tube preamp such as a Mapleshade. Of course the one box digitals are impossible to beat for value if you just want a cheap VERY good system. You won't want to use your passive preamp with the digital amps.

Just a suggestion. You are on the right track though for a great budget system with the Omegas.

kenscott30 · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 02:55 pm »

WOW,
You guys are Great!. I have been away on business, sorry I have left you hangin'. So, I do like the look of tube amps, and I have always wanted one. I guess that from what I have heard in stores and what I have read you have to spend a lot of money on a SS amp to get a great sound. So I figured that I would start with a tube amp. Dmason suggests a JVC. I had a little difficultly find it online, but I will keep that in mind. Bwanagreg mentions maybe the griffin powerwave or a kit. For some reason I feel like I should get a tube amp. I have spoken to Chris at Decware. He was very helpful. If I get an assembled unit from him I get a lifetime warranty and a 30 day trial. Maybe I get the Grand 6s first with skylar stands and run it with the adcom. Order the Decware and have a listen. Then probably sell the adcom and keep the decware. Part of me is thinking about a one box digital that Bwanagreg recommends. Again I am thinking HE/SHE means either the Panasonic SA-XR 45 or the griffin powerwave as far as off the shelf units?? I am not sure.

I guess I like the look of tubes and I have always wanted one. To me it seems more like a real amp, than a powerwave. I don't know, I have never heard one. I want to THANK everyone that has helped me so far. Thanks folks!

I will let you know what I do.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 07:09 pm »

Just to clarify, the Powerwave (and similar Teac and Sonic Impact) is not a one box device - it's an amp only. You would need separate source and preamp. Here is an example of a one box solution bantered arounfd this forum (I have no experience with it):

http://www.buy.com/prod/Sharp_SD_EX101_1_Bit_Home_Audio_System_with_CD_Player/q/loc/114/70013007.html

Anyway, I could never criticize anyone for wanting a tube amp at some point for the experience of it. Enjoy!

Here are my comments on a heavily modified digital amp that Wayne (Bolder Cable) built. I've stopped looking at amps.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13518

One more thought - if you run the Adcom through the Omegas prepare to be disappointed. This is not a good match. Why not buy a real cheap one box and see if you are satisfied, then decide whether to buy a better digital or a tube amp? Or just buy the $%^&*^ tube amp and be happy.

HE/SHE ???

(Hint)
|
|
V

Irwin · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 07:54 pm »

Ken,
I've owned a pair of Grande 6's for about 6 months now.I broke them in with a ASL MG SI 15 SET integrated amp.I'm now using a Creek 4330.
The Grande 6 and the ASL are a match made in heaven.They come up
for sale from time to time on Audiogon for about $400-450.
Irwin

mcgsxr · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 07:57 pm »

One of the JVC hybrids that Dmason is on about can be found here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39822&item=5726183484&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4786&item=5727056279&rd=1 another here...

and the exact one here... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39822&item=5726085545&rd=1

Basically, search ebay for jvc and hybrid, in both auctions and descriptions.

The idea with this unit, is that you toss aside the included speakers, and use yours, and Dmason suggests good things follow...

I guess it depends on how much power you think you need. The JVC is around 15w I think, the Teac is 30w, and I am not sure about the Pwave, I think it is 10w. There are people to mod all of them for you, if you desire.

Mark in Canada

mcgsxr · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 08:27 pm »

My bad, the JVC all in one in question, does drive 30wpc like the Teac.

Mark in Canada

tvyankee · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 08:41 pm »

The amp i heard with them is the M-100plus from oprea audio.

This amp is very nice sounding and looking.Also Louis from Omega likes it as well.

You might want to check it out.

http://www.operaudio.com/Html/Opera-Products-TUBEAMP.htm

Dmason · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 09:34 pm »

Here is a good real world compromise:

Order the JVC FS-X1, it will arrive midweek. Get going with it, listening to tunes while you decide whether to order the Decware despite just how good things all the sudden sound, enjoy the JVC for the 6 months it takes the Decware to arrive, compare the two and decide either to keep both, or sell the Decware. Or keep the Dec, but also keep the JVC to use when you send the Decware back for repair, or to have them install a sub-OUT and tuner, by which time you will be hooked on with the JVC if you use a sub, --by the time the Decware arrives anyway. Or, use the $375 difference betwixt the two to get a nice little sub, and now you have superior full-range sound, crossover-less heaven, with some grunt.

I personally guarantee the JVC at about $125 will NOT underwhelm you with the Fostex... in fact, they are an unreal combo, very grown up sound for not much money, and i would take this combo over just about anything out there, except some tube amps

. It is what I use now. Because with these digital wonders, who needs tubes?

kenscott30 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Oct 2004, 04:42 pm »

Ok, I think that I will go for a powerwave ($80) and use my passive pre-amp and expensive CD player. I do like the idea of a JVC one box but what about my pretty cd player... I just can't sell it, I just go it. Sorry Dmason, I know that you really like the ss stuff. So I am going for the powerwave (ugly) and them maybe demo the decware at a later date. The opera audio looks great but too expensive. I thought about Eastern Electric (demo amp for 700+ship), they look great and sound great-?? But I don't have the cash right now. Thanks for talking out loud about this...If you feel you have more input please add.

All the best!

Ken

Dmason · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Oct 2004, 05:10 pm »

You will not be disappointed by the PowerWave. Give it some attention to how you power it. Anyone who has heard Tripath sonics with the Fostii would agree.

I love the sound of Tripath, neither SS nor tube sounding, the level of harmonic content, and the ability to "unbundle" the instruments and present it all in a warm, resolving way is the Tripath trademark. The little JVC is a good value and a good alternative.

If you have a super CD, then absolutely -use it, source is about the most important part of the chain, I think. Fire away.

smollett · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Nov 2004, 11:53 pm »

I have a pair of Grande 6 speakers in use in my home office, and use a 1961 Fisher KX-200 integrated amplifier to power them to reasonable sound levels. With six Fisher by Telefunken 12AX7 and four NOS GE 7591A tubes, the sound is liquid, smooth, and properly dynamic. Louis actually heard this very amp with some Grande 6s in his old shop and thought the combo sounded quite accurate and impressive.

Jack Jones · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Nov 2004, 12:15 am »

Hi Ken,

I switched over to tubes about 18 months ago - I'll never turn back. I went with the Bottlehead Foreplay Pre-amp ( fully upgraded ) and am completely thrilled. My amp is Canadian, a Stereo 30 by Ideal Innovations. I just ordered an Omega 6R - and it cannot come soon enough.

The Bottlehead community is incredible; helpful, extremely knowledgeable, and nice to those just learning about kit building and soldering. The bang-for-buck is huge with their designs, and you'll learn a lot - in a gentle kinda way. I pushed my Foreplay pre-amp mods to an extreme - and wow -what sound! People come over to listen and they're stunned, the sound is simply gorgeous. The Ideal Innovations amp was just supposed to be an interrim tube amp - but the sound and those lovely 8808s glowing blue and orange will probably stay for quite a while. But the sound quality in my system is definitely coming from the Bottlehead Foreplay Pre-amp. My listening room is probably best rated at terrible ( 11 x 13 ). But Louis at Omega says he never really uses room treatments - so I'm looking forward to not having to bother with that - I hope! Also, the racks and stands he recommends are tops - skylan.com . They're on order too. My intention is not to do this on the cheap - but to do it well, and learn some electronics and physics along the way.

The Omega's at the recent show in Colorado ( October 04 ) beat some much larger players in the single driver line-up. The Omega's are the one to beat - and with that price...!

Enjoy your system,

Jack

rosypup · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Nov 2004, 12:26 am »

i just got back from vacation and i brought a very inexpensive ss cd player with me. i think it has a pair of 3 and 1/2 inch full range speakers. and it sounded better than it should.

but getting back home to my set amps, i realize that tubes really breathe life into the music. that's the best way i can describe it.

i think a second hand tube amp is just as cheap and perhaps cheaper than building a kit.