[Scroof Neachy]

I know this topic has been done to death on just about all audio sites, but I’ve always wondered when an ideal gain is recommended for a particular cartridge, is the gain of the preamp always assumed to be part of the equation? For example: manufacturers of mm phono stages usually have somewhere between 38 and 48 db gain and mention this is enough for a typical mm cartridge. Preamps typically have somewhere between 10 and 20 db gain. Are these manufacturers assuming this when they design their phono stages?

What happens if you’re using a passive preamp or maybe a buffer with volume control but with no extra gain? Do we need to add an extra 10-20 db gain somehow to the chain?

[sunnydaze]

I know this topic has been done to death on just about all audio sites, but I’ve always wondered when an ideal gain is recommended for a particular cartridge, is the gain of the preamp always assumed to be part of the equation? For example: manufacturers of mm phono stages usually have somewhere between 38 and 48 db gain and mention this is enough for a typical mm cartridge. Preamps typically have somewhere between 10 and 20 db gain. Are these manufacturers assuming this when they design their phono stages?

What happens if you’re using a passive preamp or maybe a buffer with volume control but with no extra gain? Do we need to add an extra 10-20 db gain somehow to the chain?

If your line stage is low or no gain, then yes it is very possible you will be short overall gain.

What can help offset it is if you have very efficient speakers, and / or an amp that is very easy to drive (ie. sensitive on the input).

The system's entire "sensitivity profile" comes into play -- which includes these two variables, plus line stage gain, plus the obvious parameters of cart output and phono stage gain.

[Scroof Neachy]

Thanks for your response. I guess calculators like KAB assume there is going to be added gain somewhere down the line. Seems odd.

[sunnydaze]

Thanks for your response. I guess calculators like KAB assume there is going to be added gain somewhere down the line. Seems odd.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think phono gain recs in the literature are based on getting to the standard 2v output at the phono stage outputs.  This puts it in line with standard cdp player output.  But if gain is lacking further down the line -- as is the case when using a passive -- then speaker output may be anemic (when using any source, not just phono).  Again, as a function of the other variables discussed above like speaker efficiency, amp input sensitivity, and impedance matching. 

So yes, I believe that implicit in the literature is the assumption that there will be some further line stage gain required for the average listener who generally uses amps / speakers of average (or worse) sensitivity / efficiency.