[violetmachan]

hello guys

This is for all the experts, makers, designer and passionate people of reproduced sound.

I was told when using a true biwire format for speakers cables...ie four seperate runs from amp to speaker per side....which is 8 in total.....like I am currently cooking with my vsa-mb ultra speaker cables

" criss crossing the speaker cables.....positive on the left and negative on the right speaker cable terminals on the back of the amp .....and vice versa for the pair on that amp

This apparently makes the cables in perfect symmetry and you will hear a difference.....that takes the sound to its best!

any view on this.....any schematic.....or diagrams.....and does it positively make a difference for the better.......this is said to be applicable only when using 4 single wires per side

Sam

[SundayNiagara]

As they say in Brooklyn, "can't hoit."

[steve f]

I fail to see the advantage. Bi-amping yes. Bi-wiring, how can that make a difference if resistance is low and the wires are connected to the same amplifier? My physics memory is pretty rusty, but law of superposition applies that in a linear circuit they are electrically the same. What can be done to make a difference?
I do agree that it doesn't hurt anything.

[JackD201]

Hi Sam,

8 per side criss crossed? I don't get what you mean by criss crossing.

Left Amp's output corresponding + and - terminals of  MT Left and  Bass Left. Same for the right amps'  outputs the the MT and Bass of the Right speaker. Anything other than that I can't wrap my head around.

[violetmachan]

hello jack

I am a little scrambled too!  .....I was hoping one of you, expert boffins will be able to help.....explain


This was the orginal PM to me just a few days ago....from a very reliable source....message as it goes

 "Your single run speaker cables should prove to be interesting for sure.  Remember you should criss-cross the speaker cables.  You know - positive on the left and negative on the right speaker cable terminals on the back of the amp…. and vice versa for the other pair on that amp.  This makes the cables in perfect symmetry and you will hear a difference."

I have always stayed with a simple convention of one set of plus & negative from ampside to the woofer module postive and negative and the same for the 2nd set from power amp to the mid/high monitor module on the speakerside

I follow the same convention on the other monoblock power amp to speaker connection


pic of bare amp rear




pic of my standard connection



pic of my standard speaker connection


The audio wizard is away on a holiday break....hope to get schematic once he gets back in march!

I presume criss cross the positive set from amp to woofer module and the other postive to the monitor module and criss crossing the negative from amp side intented to go the the woofer module but going to the monitor module and vice versa!!!.......hope it sounds right

Its easy with the pic enclosed....

I presume I would not be able to do this configuration, as ....The 4 single runs on one side ......Have the woofer pair slightly tubbier than the mid/high pair......this is true in the ultra speaker cables I am using and cor`s 8 piece harmonic tech cables

do keep your thoughts coming in Steve and SundayN

Hope you guys can elucidate ......if it makes sense


sam
 

[harley52]

 I don't know how much the cable's you're using are but, from the looks and VSA's quality it's a sizable chunk of change. You could try the hook up with some cheaper cable's and see what you think then If, after some time you decide you think it improves or doesn't improve the sound the cost won't be as hard to swallow. That's coming from someone who is in the area of buying some VR 22's or 33's so I have to be more careful than you need to be. I'm basing that on the speaker's you have. And I'm at the lower end. Good luck. If it proves to help the sound other than just being a different sound I'd sure like to know. Well, I guess most everybody would like to know.

Can you tell me what amp that is? Thanks

[violetmachan]

that's a possible option Harley .

the audio wizard with the option will respond with a schematics once he returns from his holiday......I am very curious about  this too.....and will definitely share it with all vsa followers.....if  significant....will be ideal.

strange what a forum like this , springs up....!....I was really hoping all the audio experts would come with some realistic  explanation .....well for now will stay with the safe convention .

Harley , I have been still burning in the ultra speaker cables...which do need as proposed by Albert 1000plus hours to make them work at its best.....I presume this is going to take a few months , as I could not get an kable kooking  program anywhere close to where I live and this process was not possible with the manufacturer due to a system malfunction  on their industrial kable kooker .

Currently this  burnin program is on a meridian cinema system 861v6/558 power Amps.

The 2 channel amps which i use the tenor audio 350M HP  mono-blocks....which unfortunately I do not have for use ....Gone back  to tenor audio for the latest 500 watt gen2 HP upgrade  and optimisation ?

Sam

[violetmachan]

schematic pic of lateral biwiring.....ie criss crossing the mid/high speaker cables on the amp end.......said to work like a dream!!

The unusual element of this hookup takes place at the other end of the speaker cables.  which led to a cable configuration that looked like this: This should be very easy if your are using 4 seperate runs of speaker cables per monoblock of amplification.

hope the pic explains things




Instead of bi-wiring in vertical sets (L and R, plus/minus), my amp manufacturer recommended that I do a lateral bi-wire, with the plus of L being combined with the minus of R, and the plus of R paired with the minus of L. This would produce the best sound in our configuration, they assured me.  I assume that the manufacturer knows what it is doing! The results are said to be amazing amazing!.

warning: check with your amp manufacturer ......before experimenting!!.....I /my amp manufacturer will not be held responsible

Your expert views from experience would be most appreciated

will try this option when my tenor combo returns from canada......hopefully the ultra loom will be fully cooked by then

[gammajo]

I probably am lost, but I always thought that reversing positive and negative on either the amp or the speaker side would reverse polarity and therefore phase and was done in single runs to correct for reversed polarity in the chain ahead of the speakers. If this is so, then why would you want to reverse the polarity of the mids versus bass? I biwired my VR5s and will do so with my 55's, and Albert said that the same cable will work great the usual biwire way. Let me know what you find out.

[violetmachan]

this is what the manufacturer claims :.
It well may be to do with tenor monoblocks configuration

 "Your single run speaker cables should prove to be interesting for sure.  Remember you should criss-cross the speaker cables.  You know - positive on the left and negative on the right speaker cable terminals on the back of the amp…. and vice versa for the other pair on that amp.  This makes the cables in perfect symmetry and you will hear a difference."

I am no electronic/ physics expert.......but happy to try , once the tenor combo return from their upgrade .
will keep you posted.....only hope the tenors or 9se' s do not have to return to the makers for a refit!!